Ray Peat Rodeo
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00:00 So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD-Garberville 91.1 FM and from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o’clock. You’re invited to call in with any questions, either related or unrelated, to this month’s topic, of the misinformation concerning energy production, diabetes and saturated fats. The number here if you live in the area is 923 3911 or if you live outside the area, the toll free number is 1-800-568-3723. That’s 1-800-KMUD-RAD and we can also be reached toll free on 1-888-WBM-ERB for further questions during normal business hours Monday through Friday. So once again, we’re very pleased to have Dr Raymond Peake with us, endocrinologist, researcher. Many, many years of experience under his belt to illuminate some of the misinformation that’s so prevalent in medical literature. 01:01 So Dr Peake, thank you for joining us again. As always, people may have tuned in who perhaps have never listened to the show, so it’s always a very good idea to just give an overview of your background, your education and what you’re bringing into the show this evening. I’ve studied a lot of different things, but my biological study was at the University of Oregon. I spent four years there working on a PhD starting out thinking I was going to do nerve biology and brain biology and the people in that section were so dogmatic. I looked around and found that the reproductive physiology and aging people were actually scientifically oriented. So I shifted over to my dissertation on the hormones and physiology and energy metabolism of aging and reproductive system. 02:10 Now I know that you’re very interested in maintaining a good thyroid function. I think that’s one of the main things that we both have found is a key cornerstone to maintaining biological energy production. And that’s so important in fighting the negative effects of the environmental material that we’d come into contact with that would lower our metabolic energy. So I think probably the first reference to metabolic energy and the prevalence in the food chain of the material that is counterproductive to good health is the saturated fats versus the polyunsaturated. So in your understanding, is that one of the main stumbling blocks for the misinformation of diabetes and triglycerides and general lipids health? 03:17 Yeah, I think so. The people who created the idea of these essential fatty acids actually a few years later did an experiment with one of their lab people that I think really showed all of the important features of why people should not eat the essential so-called fatty acids. In 1929 when the Burrs published their claim that the polyunsaturated fats linoleic acid and linoleic acid, they said those are essential for life. Other biologists had shown that animals were healthier when they had no fat in their diet, had almost no cancer as spontaneously developing. 04:20 But the Burrs simply ignored the evidence that the fats were harmful and other biologists ignored them pretty much for about 20 years because the evidence was so overwhelmingly against their claims. In their faith that those fats were essential, one of their lab people agreed to go on a fat-free diet for six months. And his health remarkably improved. His blood lipids changed somewhat. The cholesterol went down a little and the triglycerides went up a little, but the total lipids quantity stayed about the same. But he didn’t get tired after a day’s work as he always had and his lifelong weekly migraine headaches disappeared forever. 05:25 So nothing really was assuring the support of their physician until the seed oil industry wanted to market their liquid seed oil, cotton seed oil, linseed oil, soybean oil and so on. And they brought the Burrs out of obscurity and said since they have proven that the fatty acids, linoleic acid and linoleic are essential for life, we’ll get the public to eat them in huge quantity and treat them as drugs rather than as simply a trace nutrient that according to their somewhat unconvincing research as trace nutrients, they were supposedly doing something to make the skin healthier. 06:36 But the counter evidence had included such things as many animal diseases that degenerative brain disease, atrophy of the gonads and infertility and so on were connected with eating too much of the unsaturated fats. And vitamin E was found to protect against that. So it was all a marketing campaign to sell the idea that not only are those fats essential, but they’re good for you and like a drug they’ll prevent heart disease. But very soon people started producing evidence showing that in fact linoleic acid not only causes heart disease but promotes cancer, immune problems, all kinds of things similar to what they’d seen in the animals. 07:46 Okay, now all of these poofers then are the fish oils, the hemp seed oil, canola, etc. So these are all the liquid oils that you’re referring to that are so common in the food chain now? Yeah, and in the 1950s they were feeding a lot of fish to mink in the mink farms and they were producing what was called the yellow fat disease. Right, okay. Which apparently was related to the age pigment lipofus, which is a brown pigment that develops from the breakdown of the polyunsaturated fats. Right. So the fish oils were right along with the seed oils were seen to be toxic in the 50s and 60s. But by the 1970s linoleic acid was being recognized as a major cause of heart disease and cancer. And so they had sold the public on the idea of a central fatty acid so they just changed the story and said well fish oils or linseed oils are a different kind of fat. 08:59 They aren’t the omega minus six oils like the deadly linoleic acid. Okay. They’re the omega minus three. Right. But those had already themselves been incriminated with the yellow fat and lipofus can disease. Okay, so they just switched tactics to the N3s and tried to sell those, huh? Yeah, and that’s where we are now with the fish oil craze. What I find is quite interesting is with our clients blood work when they say, oh, you know, have you had some blood work done? Why don’t you bring it in and let’s look at it. So a lot of clients have elevated liver enzymes. And when they start eating coconut oil, those enzymes come down. Yeah, a researcher on hepatitis and cirrhosis, a non-G, for years has been showing that the polyunsaturated fats injure the liver. 10:03 I think it started with an Indian researcher noticing that in the butter regions of India, alcoholics didn’t develop hepatitis or cirrhosis in the liver. And so he tested his observation on rats and found that if he fed them unsaturated oils, alcohol caused cirrhosis and hepatitis, if he fed them saturated fats, it didn’t. And so non-G tried that on his patients and found that their liver condition improved if he gave them a lot of saturated fats and got worse if he fed them fish oils or seed oils. So why do you think it is so prevalent in the literature that we’re bombarded from every seeming angle from the newspapers to the television to the radios and all the media outlets that are purporting the liquid oils to be the beneficial things? It doesn’t matter where you look, you find cardiovascular research for this or for that associating the fish oils with lower incidence of cholesterol, improved heart health. 11:13 And actually the picture from research is actually showing a very different story. I wonder why it is. There aren’t many palm trees producing coconut oil in the United States and Canada. Well, didn’t you say, Dr. Mead, that when people take fish oils and they have high cholesterol, that the cholesterol moves out of the blood and into the tissues as a stress response. So if someone had a blood test or looked at their cholesterol before and after using fish oils, it looks better after using fish oils. But it’s not actually gotten out of the body, it’s just gotten stored in the tissues. Yeah, and cholesterol is one of our most important protective antioxidants, generally protective antioxidant. And for the unsaturated fats to lower that in the total production of it and the level in the blood, it is part of why there’s something to avoid. 12:16 The liver nodes to increase, retain any cholesterol it can because it’s needed for cell division to go on, for cell function to go on. All of the internal cellular processes rely on both cholesterol and saturated fatty acids. And if you overdose on the polyunsaturated, all of these intracellular mechanisms are deranged by interfering with the cholesterol and saturated fat functions. The chromosomes, the spindles that helps the cell divide, separates the chromosomes and so on. All of these are stabilized and require cholesterol and saturated fats to function. So you get deranged expression of gene, deranged cell division if you have too much polyunsaturated fats. 13:24 Excuse me, I had to pop out for a moment, so I’m not sure if you covered all the different types of oils that fall under the category of the unsaturated versus the saturated. Humans have been eating saturated fats for thousands and thousands of years and they didn’t make seed oils, they didn’t make oil out of corn. Apart from olive maybe. That’s very little polyunsaturated, that’s mostly monounsaturated. The safe oils are butter, chocolate fat, which is mostly steric acid, coconut oil, palm kernel oil, beef fat, lamb fat, and olive oil. And also too, I mean people think of pork fat and chicken fat as being like bad fats and they actually are bad fats because of what they feed the pigs and the chickens. 14:25 So unlike beef fat or butter or cream and milk and lamb fat and any other ruminant animal that has multiple stomachs, the chicken fat and the pork fat are just as bad as the corn oil because basically the pigs and the chickens are eating corn. Yeah, and they’re now farming fish and feeding them some of the same foods that they feed chickens and pigs. And interestingly, the things we think of as fish oil, the fish that live in the cold oceans get their fats from plankton. If they eat small fish, the small fish eat the plankton. And the plankton fat is made by algae and the algae is where the m-3 fats come from and the fish modify them a little but basically what we call fish fat is algae fat. 15:29 And in experiments they have given either warm-blooded animals extra fish oil or they give the fish a diet containing less unsaturated fat like grains or cereal fats and so on. Or chicken fat I think was when they used or anchovy oil, the highly unsaturated oil of a small fish that a salmon would maybe eat. And then they tested their endurance. The rats getting the fish oil had less endurance. Even the salmon on a pure fish oil diet had less endurance than when they were getting the chicken fat or some other less highly unsaturated fat. So it’s fish oil isn’t even so great for fish. That’s hilarious, I’ve never heard that before. 16:32 So what about like the farmed shrimp? Because there’s so many shrimp and do you think farmed shrimp even have the minerals and then why it’s good to eat shellfish? No, the good thing about anything growing in the ocean is that it has access to selenium, iodine and other trace minerals where things grown inland depend on whatever is in the soil. They’re often deficient in selenium and copper. So farmed salmon, any kind of farmed fish or farmed shellfish, apart from oysters they have to farm those in the ocean I think. But they’ll all be deficient then and there’s actually no point eating them. Yeah unless people know exactly what to feed them and probably don’t. Then they’re giving them vitamins and then you’re eating vitamins, recycled vitamins. Now Dr. Pete what you explain is the problems in the food chain with those things that either poison the cells directly or interfere with thyroid function. 17:40 All hinge on the fact that as organisms we need an excess of metabolic energy to cope with the insults of the foods that we’re exposed to, the drugs that we might take or environmental toxins etc. Yeah and diabetes is a good model of the energy deprived state and they’re starting to see several years ago someone suggested that Alzheimer’s disease was diabetes of the brain. People are seeing the effects of inflammation in all of the degenerative diseases and inflammation involves a failure of energy and a shift to basically the diabetic metabolism in which all you can do with glucose is make lactic acid. Which poisons you again right? Yeah the lactic acid is pro-inflammatory and doesn’t produce enough energy for normal function. 18:49 And the essence of diabetes was pointed out by Randall in 1963 or 1964 when he observed that if you increase the free fatty acids in the blood you very quickly make the cells unable to use glucose. Do they shift their metabolism from glucose directly or? Yeah it’s now been worked out that there are two very clear points where the free fatty acids inhibit the use of glucose. Hyruvic dehydrogenase and that’s the one you need to burn glucose and then they stimulate glucagon which happens to turn on synthesis of glucose at the expense of protein. 19:51 Okay they stimulate glucagon? Yeah and glucagon then in turn stimulates the release of more fatty acids and there are several points like that where the free fatty acids activate for example adrenaline, ACTH, cortisone, pyratropic hormone and glucagon all of which increase the release of free fatty acids from your fat cell storage. And that seems very illogical of the body to create those vicious circles in which once you start having an energy failure you turn on exactly what caused it. But it turns out that it’s only the polyunsaturated fatty acids that have those terrible anti-energy effects. If you look at a comparison of stearic acid in the lake acid for example. 20:55 Which is like butter versus corn oil? Yeah the butter turns off adrenaline and ACTH on cortisone. Which are the bad guys? Yeah and the corn oil turns them on and the excited toxic system in the brain that wears out can kill brain cells. Those are activated by the polyunsaturated fats pretty much in proportion to the number of double bonds they have. Right so these have been more than in the lake. So these promote Alzheimer’s then or other neurological or degenerative? Yeah and they’re common by stearic acid. Right which is beef fat isn’t it? Stearic from stears or stearate? Maybe it’s in butter. Basically it’s a Greek word meaning fat. But yeah that’s what we were taught that it meant from stears because of stearic acid. 21:58 Okay so you’re saying that these bad oils can cause diabetes, block your use of sugar so that the blood sugar remains high and also Alzheimer’s. Right they block your energy production. And if you look up the saturation index I googled it and saw that all except one of the studies found that people with cancer had much more polyunsaturated fat in the tumor and in their bodies than healthy people. For example twice as much in one study was polyunsaturated where healthy people had equal amounts. And putting rodents on a diet of high saturated fat delayed their development of breast cancer getting in with the saturation index being a matter of protection against cancer. 23:11 Similar for heart disease there was a study in which having the polyunsaturated fats shortened the lives of the animals with a tendency to heart disease. The saturated fat, very high saturated fat diet greatly extended their lives. Didn’t Mazzola, Mr. Mazzola, didn’t he die of a heart attack after he had been saying, oh corn oil is great. Like he was trying to sell everybody on corn oil because everybody was used to eating a saturated lard or butter or coconut oil and he wanted people to buy his corn oil. So he said you can drink this stuff. It’s great for you. It’s great for your heart. And then didn’t he die at a young age of a heart attack? Isn’t that true Dr. Beat? I don’t know about him but I know about it. I’ve read that. People are famous for selling unsaturated fats dying of cancers that are known to be associated with an excess of Pufa. Pufa is our abbreviated version for polyunsaturated fatty acid and that is every other fat apart from what we’ve listed like palm oil, coconut oil, butter, beef fat, olive oil. 24:24 I missed any others. We mentioned coconut oil. Any other solid fat? In recent years people are seeing that the level of free fatty acids which in our population mean mostly unsaturated fats because those are the ones which are most easily liberated from the fat storage. There’s an extremely close connection between free fatty acids in the blood and your likelihood of dying from just about anything. Shock, aging, cancer, heart disease and infection. All associated with high levels of free fatty acids. And isn’t this something that is good for a diabetic to test because it could be showing that they’re not using their sugar because their free fatty acids are so high? Yeah. And a blood test? 25:26 Actually it’s recognized for years that niacin is effective for not only heart disease but diabetes. Simply because it lowers the free fatty acids. But that isn’t catching on because it’s so cheap. Yeah. So food sources. Does chocolate, I know coffee has a lot of niacin in it and what about chocolate, doesn’t chocolate have? I don’t know about chocolate. But also beef, I guess, rum and animal livers, beef livers. Yeah. What other food sources are high, niacinamide? All of the animal foods have a reasonable amount of liver, milk, eggs. Okay. You’re right. I’ll start again. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. 26:27 Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. We have a caller, but first I’ll tell you it’s 7.30 in 42 degrees outside and here’s our caller Hi. Yes, I’m calling from Port Bragg. We’re supposed to get down to 32 later tonight, so make sure you stay warm and get your animal then, just a suggestion there. And Dr. Pete. Last show, I’m a little older. I just had a birthday this weekend, so again, older. During the last show, you did something where I could hear you very well and I wanted to ask if whatever that was, you could do that again because I really don’t like to miss anything of what you have to say. I appreciate your wisdom and you have great information. 27:27 And before I ask my question of you, Dr. Pete, I wanted to ask, is that Sarah tonight? Yes, it is Sarah. I’m Sarah and Andrew here. I’m Sarah. Hi, Sarah. Yeah, I just wanted to ask if I could borrow your brilliant play on words about how fish that are farmed are deficient when describing the difference between the nutrients in farmed fish being deficient compared to those that are out in the ocean. I thought that was really clever and my compliments to you on that. Thank you. Yeah, and thank you for the wonderful concept. My question. Okay, go ahead. My question for Dr. Pete is based on a conversation I had with a friend who said that he has difficulty in digesting fats because of hereditary gallbladder difficulties. So I hope this is in line with the topic and that is the question that I have for you is are there any available enzymes, supplements, herbs that would help in the digestion of 28:29 fats where somebody has apparently a difficulty in properly digesting those, something that would aid in that digestion and better metabolize the fats basically as difficulty in eating meat, red meats, pork, et cetera, not so much with fish or poultry, but still a bit of a difficulty in anything in that realm? There’s a great tendency of hypothyroid people to have gallbladder disease and trouble digesting fats and the best thing to do for gallbladder disease is to improve your thyroid function and avoiding unsaturated fats in all forms is very important for the thyroid function. The myth tells us that the only difference between the unsaturated and saturated fatty 29:30 acids is their shape and they claim that that has to do with the mobility of the fat in membranes and so on, but really the absolute difference between saturated and unsaturated is the way they bind to proteins and since the basic framework of the cell is protein, the saturated fats bind properly to the proteins and the unsaturated fats don’t bind the same and bind to other proteins that they shouldn’t bind to and the protein that transports the thyroid hormone happens to, it has sites that associate with the double bonds in the thyroid hormone molecule and the unsaturated fats bind to those same sites on the transport protein 30:35 so that the protein can’t carry thyroid, it carries unsaturated fats instead. That’s interesting to know and maybe what I could suggest to him is that he’d look into what might be a cascading difficulty that originates in the thyroid and maybe prevents the, am I understanding correctly that it prevents the gallbladder from maybe properly producing enzymes necessary in that metabolism of fat? Right. Okay, well hey, and I can hear you a lot better so whatever you did keep doing it man and you all stay warm and appreciate all the information that you bring to the air, all of you. And I wanted to say as well until he can get that sorted out or while he’s working on getting that sorted out, there are lots of liver herbs that can help improve bile flow and help improve its digestion of fats, ginshin, tinctures of ginshin, burdock root, dandelion root, those are very bitter herbs that can really help stimulate that flow of bile and help in the 31:37 meantime until he can get his system working on its own. Cool, and ginshin, is that sometimes pronounced ginshin? No, ginshin, ginshin. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Swedish bitters, it’s a traditional European tonic. That has all those types of bitter herbs in there. Okay, yeah, and you know sometimes we who aren’t experts do a little clarification on that. Can you spell ginshin for me just for clarification also? Yes, it’s G for George E N T I A N. Yeah, okay, so it sounds completely or it’s spelled completely different from ginshin it’s like N T I A N. Yes. Thanks for all your information and have a good holiday, Thanksgiving coming up and I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear this for that big turkey dinner next week. Well, turkeys are like chickens, they’re full of the poofas. Don’t eat the skin. No, no, there you go. And don’t eat the stuffing that goes inside the bird. I’m sure it’ll help him enjoy his holiday better, so thanks again. Okay, thank you, Pierrot. Thank you, Recall. So Dr. Pete, let’s get back to the energy balance and the disruptive effects on end 32:45 energy of the polyunsaturates versus the saturated fats as a way of staying healthy by keeping and maintaining a high metabolic energy. Dr. Pete, you still there? Yeah, I went quiet for a while. Yeah, did you actually hear the question or not? No, I didn’t hear anything. Oh, I’m sorry. Okay. I just wanted to get back to the concept of the energy balance in the organism and the negative effects that poofa, the polyunsaturated liquid, oil, seed oil, fish oil, et cetera, canola oil, how they impact the organism’s ability to be metabolically active enough to have extra energy currency, as it were, to pay off the debt of inflammation and other things that the organism might come into contact with. The one enzyme that I mentioned, the pyruvic dehydrogenase, is the one that feeds glucose into the oxidative system. 33:48 But then the mitochondrial oxidative system itself is basically destroyed in proportion to the polyunsaturated fat exposure. This is the system within every cell, the mitochondria, the little factories that work in the cell? It produces something like 35 times more energy per molecule of sugar than a diabetic pathway can produce. Wow. Because the diabetics are forced, for want of a better word, into a fat burning mode rather than glucose burning. Yeah. And if it was purely saturated fat, that would be okay. When we’re at rest, our cells can burn saturated fat. They prefer that. The fat cells have been found to burn at rest. I mean, they’re always at rest, where the hard or skeletal muscles only in a relatively 34:55 quiet state will burn saturated fats. The fat cells being always at rest slowly energize themselves by burning saturated fat. And that’s why with age, our tissues become more and more concentrated with polyunsaturated fats because the fat cells themselves are using the good stuff. So with age, it’s seen all the way from birth to old age, there’s a progressive increase of polyunsaturated fats in all our tissues. From our diets. Yeah. And so then when we’re under stress and don’t get enough sugar, then we have to burn the bad stuff. And that does many things to the mitochondria, including sometimes sudden death. But the chronic effect is known to destroy the genes, the genetic material inside the 35:58 mitochondria where a saturated fat doesn’t burn. Would this give rise to cancers then as a result of damaged DNA? Yeah. Yeah. So you’re saying that this doesn’t really occur only in the presence of polyunsaturated destructive changes? Yeah. The saturated fats are just quietly oxidizing. Wow. Because they’re relatively stable? Yeah. Yeah. They don’t break down into the isoprostanes and neuroprostanes are equivalent to the prostaglandins, but they’re made randomly under stress and oxidation. Right. And they’re very inflammatory. Yeah. Several of the fragment molecules that are made from the N minus six or N minus three molecule hydroxyl, nonenal and hydroxyhexenal, these attach to hemoglobin genetic material, 37:06 enzymes, signaling molecules. So is this a glycation? Yeah. Most of the things that are called glycation are really fat breakdown products. Okay. So basically if you’re a diabetic, then most likely you’re going to be breaking down these bad fats in your tissues and you can get a blood test that shows that you have high lactic acid from this inefficient metabolism where you burn this fat that’s really a bad fat that’s not a saturated fat. Yeah. So what would happen if a diabetic only ate saturated fats? Well, it takes a long time to use up the defense on how old and how fat you are. A thin person can change very quickly, but it isn’t just the storage fats that become very highly polyunsaturated with age. 38:07 But every tissue contains phospholipids and other very complex molecules containing the fatty acids. So what would be like the maximum time if someone who had cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer’s, how long would it take if they stopped eating all of these polyunsaturated fatty acids and all these bad oils and just started eating butter and coconut? Well, they’ve looked at people moving from Holland to England, for example, or rats or chickens that are put on a different diet. And the complete changeover takes years, about four years. But if you eat frequently and thoroughly avoid the stress-causing foods and don’t let yourself get hungry enough that you call on the stress hormones to liberate fat, you can very quickly 39:13 shift over to the efficient metabolism, frequent eating, but always with sugar and always with absolutely no poofa. So it allows the slow disposition of the unsaturated toxic fats. And our liver treats the poofa like it treats other toxins. If it has the energy, it attaches them to a sugar and prepares them to be excreted in urine, just like chloroform or dioxin or whatever. And the other toxin. So that’s also why, like women will go on these weight loss programs and they lose, say, 60 to 70 pounds in a year, that their liver enzymes go up and their liver shows signs of stress. 40:13 And that’s because they burn too many of these polyunsaturates at once. If your liver stays energized with frequent feedings and good nutrition, it can slowly eliminate those fats without running them through the mitochondria. But when you’re under stress, you not only damage all of your blood vessels and nerve cells and so on, but you very specifically knock out the exact enzymes which are needed to detoxify things. So lots of snacks of fruit and cheese or fruit and milk, things like that to keep your energy metabolism going well will help prevent these bad fats from coming into circulation too quickly at once. Yeah. And I think we have a caller on the line. Hi. I’m really enjoying your show. In fact, you’re reinforcing what my mom always told me. What was that? Oh, you know, eat more veggies, eat more fruit, you know, that kind of stuff. 41:18 She also wanted me to eat milk and drink milk, but that’s another story. Right. Well, I’d recommend the same thing, sir. Okay. Thank you. Well, I’m allergic to milk, so I’m not sure about that one, but I’ve got a question for you. I’m sure I could sort that out. Given enough time, I could help you out with that too. But anyway, so what’s your question? There was this, I guess you’d call it a diet, a way to eat that was talked about, you know, how these diet things go. They’re kind of a bad thing. They come into people’s awareness and they’re the going thing for a while, but it was called to eat right for your blood type. Oh, right. Yes, I’ve heard of that. And what I, you know, I don’t usually subscribe to most of those things, but I did notice with that. You know, I looked it up and said, well, what’s it saying? It said for my blood type, which is O positive, it said, you know, beef is really good and pork not so good and this and that. And what I’ve noticed is that, you know, when I find myself in a stressful position or tired 42:22 position, I mean, I thought I’d get this yearning for, you know, to go have a hamburger or go have some meat or something. And after I eat it, I feel really satisfied. And I wondered what you all think with your experience in studies about the relationship between certain types of foods or maybe specifically meat products and, you know, blood types or any of that kind of information. Or even cravings. That would be an interesting question for you, Dr. Pete, as far as a person’s craving for like when they really want that steak or they really want, well, if I’ve been having cravings for watermelon, I really want some watermelon. So what is, what is the brain trying to tell us that? There have been animal studies and some studies in kids showing that we have very specific nerve systems that tell us what we’re deficient in, except for the quality of protein. There are only a few of the amino acids that our systems detect as deficiencies and I forget 43:30 which those are, but we do crave protein when we’re deficient in protein if the food is a balanced type of protein and we crave sugar and salt, very specifically, if we need those and type of thyroid people generally crave sugar and salty food and vitamin C is something that causes a craving for sour, tangy foods, fruits, for example. Okay, so I guess, Colla, are you still on the air? Yes. So did that answer your question? Well, I mean, it does to a degree. I wonder, you know, the factor that I’ve noticed again and I mentioned was there’s a certain level of stress that I’ve noticed that brings out some of that. Well, I can notice when I’m tired, I get more cravings for sugar things, but also stress 44:31 will bring on, you know, if I get really stressed and I say I’m working, I really want that donut, which I don’t, donuts are one thing that I just try to avoid, you know, but I find that there is some fat or, you know, as I’ve said, the meat thing. So I’m wondering because I do find I eat a fair amount of beef and I try to buy the lowest fat content beef I can and I get it, you know, I’m hearing all your cautionary information regarding eating animal fats and I’m just trying to find a balance there between what my body seems to be craving and what I’m hearing from you and from your educated point of view. Right. Well, as far as the beef fat is concerned, that is not a dangerous fat. Of course, now with industrial beef raising, cattle raising, sorry, what they’re feeding the cows if they’re, I mean, if they’re giving the animals hormones, those will get stored 45:33 in the fat. But if it’s a grass-fed organic animal, then the fat should be fairly clean and that if you’re craving, you didn’t say you were craving fat, but basically I don’t think beef fat is a super dangerous fat. It’s the chicken fat and the pork fat and the turkey fat and the fish fat. Those fats are the ones that are, that are, have been shown in these studies that we’ve been talking about tonight to be dangerous and blocking your use of sugar and slowing down sales metabolism and altering the genetics and all of that sort of thing. And your references earlier that I heard were, at least with the swine and chickens were along the lines of that it’s really the feed that’s causing that. Would that be the same with fish? Are you, are you referencing only farmed fish or are you saying all fish? Well, they’ve seen the change of diet affecting even farmed salmon. 46:34 And it’s, the fish really have just as almost an absolute reflection of their diet in their fat. Fish in the Amazon contain fat that’s as saturated as butter because of the temperature of the water. Huh. Interesting. So, so the, so the old story of the Eskimo and you know why the Eskimos don’t get heart disease because they eat a lot of fish? It’s because they eat whale blubber which is very saturated. They live off a whale blubber. I don’t know if I’ll go that far in my size. No, I know. Well, we have butter, we have grass-fed butter and grass, I mean grass-fed butter, grass-fed beef, grass-fed beef and butter and milk that’s from, you know, grass-fed cows. But no, the one thing I do want to point out is that when cows eat the bad food just like 47:34 the chickens and the pigs, all the corn and all the soy that’s in it, the cows because they have four stomachs, they can transfer that bad fat from the corn into a saturated fat. So it’s not dangerous like if you ate the fat of the chicken or the pig or the turkey. Yeah, that’s really interesting. I hadn’t known that before. So the cows bacteria use vitamin E to saturate the fat, basically detoxifying the unsaturated fats. Okay, we’ve lost you, Dr. Pete. Yeah, there was a noise. Yeah. So just say that again. You were talking about the… Vitamin E. Right. Vitamin E, even in humans, will cause some of that in the intestine if there are bacteria present with the fat. Vitamin E lets the bacteria saturate and detoxify some of the poofa. 48:35 So one of the small effects of vitamin E is to destroy the polyhensaturated fat rather than just protecting against it, its after effects. So if someone were to eat French fries, God forbid, no, then they could take up some vitamin E with it to help prevent some of the damage. Yeah, or make the French fries in coconut oil. Okay, now that last caller who mentioned when they get stressed, they want to gravitate towards… I think he was gravitating towards meat, but he did mention that donuts would be something else that he would consume, perhaps under stress. Do you understand that stress, perhaps, as being a need for blood sugar or…? Yeah, there are these specific needs. A protein deficient person or animal will gravitate towards a higher protein in the food, but the most intense connection between need and appetite is between sugar and salt. 49:41 Okay, so sugar and salt are the good guys, as we’ve heard before many times, it’s kind of another misinformation, folks, so people that have tuned in this evening have probably heard things that they may not have heard before, and some people that have tuned in have heard it and they want to keep hearing more, which is all good. So we’ll just reiterate the fact that the misinformation that’s out there in the media is portraying the liquid oils as good, as soy as good, sugar is bad and salt is bad, and actually salt and sugar are both very important for you, anti-stress compounds for lowering adrenaline, and the saturated fats are actually very good in supporting a healthy metabolism. What do you think about the free fatty acids in the liquid, sorry, sorry? Sorry, I just want to say, but if you want foods in balance, you can’t just eat salt on its own, you can’t just eat sugar just on its own, you want to balance it with a good protein and a good fat, though you want to balance the sugar and the salt with a good protein and a good fat, so you keep it all in balance. 50:45 Maybe we have time for you just to explain what the Randall hypothesis proposed 30 years ago or thereabouts that science wants to ignore now, or I see some people actually digging up that old research and starting to re-examine it. Some people call it the Randall cycle, but there’s no cycle involved, it’s just a competition. When you raise your free fatty acids, you inhibit the ability to oxidize glucose, and stress increases the free fatty acids, and oxidizing glucose is what you need to overcome the stress, and so it’s sort of a counterproductive reaction, but the reason it’s counterproductive is that our systems are designed not to eat puffa, and it’s a puffa which very systematically 51:47 is just an amazing black and white almost difference, the way the puffa turn on the very stress hormones that interfere with the energy making the body need more stress hormones and blocking the energy so that we need more turning on the very things that cause the problem. Why does the body want to do that? The body is designed apparently from how completely systematic it is to respond to saturated fat. Because saturated fats block the stress reaction, so the properly functioning body would be logical, the stress reaction would provide energy in the absence of food, would provide the saturated fats from the storage, and at the same time it would inhibit the stress 52:51 hormones and allow the cycle to be broken. So it’s just that we happen to be living in a time since the 1920s when they make poisonous fats, and our body is used to eating saturated fat for thousands and thousands of years, and it’s not responding to the unsaturated fats like it does to the saturated fats, so we’re just getting poisoned basically, it’s not the body’s fault. If science had simply been looking to understand the situation since 1930, things would have been very clear in 1950, but the very systematic differences between saturated and unsaturated fats would have become perfectly apparent in just a few years of open discussion, but advertising just totally swamped the whole cultural situation, so even the scientists and doctors dealing with the situation got embroiled, yeah, they don’t see the picture 53:57 of how clearly polarized the types of fat are in their effects on the physiology. It’s just become a big snowball effect. Okay, well, we’ve only got four minutes to go, so I’m sure there’s no more time for callers, and I think for the people that are listening, thank you for those who’ve tuned in this evening. Dr. Raymond Peat has a wealth of information that I think you should all visit at least once if you haven’t done it yet, please do go to his website, it’s www.raypeat.com, and there’s plenty of scholarly referenced articles that will highlight everything that we’ve talked about tonight and plenty more, so do take a look at the website, and we can always be contacted monthly through Friday, normal business hours if people want to communicate any questions with us, and do you have anything else you want to add, Sarah? 54:59 No, I’m done for the evening. Dr. Peat, I wanted to make sure that there wasn’t anything else you wanted to say, or is there any parting words you have for our listeners? Nope. Okay. Eat good fats and keep your energy working, lots of snacks. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us again, we do really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so all those people that have listened out there, there’s always an alternative, so don’t ever think you’re stuck, and don’t especially think that you’re stuck having to do something that the medical establishment tell you is the only way to go about treating a certain situation, so whilst the misinformation that’s out there concerning everything we’ve talked about is so prevalent, don’t believe that there’s not another alternative because there is, it’s just, you just have to open your eyes and open your ears, and for those of you who have ears, let them hear. Thank you and good night, we’ll see you in December.

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