Ray Peat Rodeo
A picture of Marcus Whybrow, creator of Ray Peat Rodeo From Marcus This is an audio interview to do with Ray Peat from 2015.
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00:00 Very welcome to you all listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name’s Andrew Murray. My name’s Sarah Johanneson Murray. We both trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine and clients consult with us regarding their health issues and we recommend personalized advice and nutrition, supplements, herbs, diet and lifestyle. And we can be reached toll free one 888 WBM herb or on www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com. So, a little departure from the last few years and definitely from Dr. Pete’s altruistic and giving all of his time and his energy and his research. I’m very excited to show you that tonight. We are hosting two filmmakers, Brad Abraham’s and Jeremy Stewart, who are producing a documentary film called On the Back of a Tiger. They’ve interviewed eight Maverick scientists, including Dr. Ray Pete, who weave an alternate story of life from the molecular level to consciousness and perception, challenging the mainstream medical dogma with scientific research, 01:01 illuminating radical new ways of understanding disease and its treatment. I welcome Brad and Jeremy to Ask Your Herb Doctor. Are you guys with us? Yes, we are. Okay. Thanks for the great intro, sums it up nicely. Excellent. Okay. Welcome Dr. Pete to the show. Yeah, hello. Oh, hi Dr. Pete. It seems like we have a threesome on the airwaves. Oh, great. Okay, so basically, we’ve been very fortunate to interview you, Dr. Pete, for a number of years now, and you frequently mention names during your discourses and they’re usually eminent scientists and groundbreaking alternative researchers whose view of mainstream medicine is alternative to the dogma, if not controversial. Most people view the doctor as an all-knowing entity, but many doctors fail to read the research that points to anything other than the dogma, which is perpetuated by Big Pharma. Up until the time that I just realised that Dr. Pete was going to be with us a couple of minutes ago, I had written a small outline for Brad and Jeremy, 02:03 apparently who’ve been exhaustively travelling Europe in the year 2014 to track down these eight principal scientists who they did manage to get one, two and three-day interviews with, I think. So I wanted to cover the timeline with which you started interviewing these scientists, starting with Dr. May Wan Ho, and give each of you, I don’t quite know how we’re going to work this with both of you on the show, I think one person will do one and the other will do another, or you can both interject and Dr. Ray Pete, you too, at the same time, you can all cut in. I wanted to ask both of you two though, Jeremy, first, like I always have done with Dr. Pete, if you would just give an outline of your professional and academic backgrounds, perhaps starting with you, Brad. Sure. Well, my background and Jeremy’s are quite similar, so could cover both of us. We both went to film school originally, and very soon after graduating entered the advertising and commercial production world 03:09 where we were trapped for many years, pining away, trying to figure out a way to work on projects that were more meaningful to us and to other people. And you just can’t do that with a full-time job. It takes up so much of your energy creatively and physically that we ended up quitting, still working freelance for funds, but spending more and more of our time now working on projects like these, and we focused specifically on this project now for the last year or so. Have you had any background reasons for pursuing this kind of health-topic medical establishment approach to disease? Is anything pertinent in either of you that has kind of spurred this? Yeah. You can go ahead, Jeremy. We both, I think, are sort of sensitive, fragile people in that way, 04:12 as far as always being more aware of what we eat and sensitive to the environment. Some people are maybe more hypothyroid than others, as Ray might say. And so I think we both had similar interests. That’s how we became friends in the first place while working together, seeing that reading about, I think, on world’s healthiest foods was when we first had our first conversation and realized that we had a lot in common. But seeing health problems in friends and family who couldn’t find solutions, I think that’s always been a background and having an interest in science. Yeah, it was originally, for myself, just things like really bad digestion, allergies, fatigue. And a lot of it, I think, came with overworking and just the confines of the modern world. 05:15 But more recently, it’s been seeing deteriorating health of family and friends. And in particular, my father, who’s been in the last couple of years, had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. And I was already skeptical of the medical establishment, but just seeing the bad science and really suspect motives, particularly with this disease, really spurred a sense of urgency creating a project like this. Okay. And Jeremy and Brad, I was wondering, how did you first find out about Dr. Peake? Because I know you wanted this film. Initially, you were thinking this film was going to be focused solely on Dr. Ray Peake. How did you first hear about Dr. Peake? Well, I was introduced to him by Brad. Brad, you found him through Danny Roddy? Yeah, originally Danny Roddy. I had been on the roller coaster of diets and in need of recovery and had found Danny’s site 06:26 that had mentioned Dr. Peake and just found it so fascinating, someone looking at health and nutrition starting at the molecular level and actually really understanding that, having such a solid grasp of the biochemistry. It took a long time. The work is dense and hard to understand for someone without a scientific background. So it took a long time. It took actually a couple years of reading and listening and talking with Jeremy and others to really have a grasp on the unique view and also self-experimentation with diet and certain lifestyle things that really ended up having quite a large impact, I think, in both of our healths. Definitely. And it was a while we were aware of reading Ray’s work for quite a long time before we talked about the idea of doing a documentary. 07:29 I think it coincided and somewhat inspired doing something, getting into a project that was more meaningful and outside of the commercial world that we’d been in for so long. Wow, that’s excellent. Well, all this talk about Dr. Ray Peake, I think we need to ask Dr. Ray Peake what your professional and academic background is if there’s listeners tonight that have not heard our show in previous months. I was studying art and literature as an undergraduate and did my master’s thesis mostly on William Blake. And all that time I was interested in life in general and saw biology as a way to get some concrete facts that would confirm alternative views because I saw in the humanities dogma and political opinions influencing 08:35 what was teachable in the universities. And I thought that real science might have relevance to the humanities. And as soon as I enrolled at the University of Oregon to work on a PhD in biology, after taking a few years out in between my master’s, I quickly realized that biology was exactly as unscientific as linguistics, philosophy, literature, and so on. Ideology was right at the center of nerve biology. And so I wrote to Gilbert Ling and I told him what my professors were teaching that he and others had shown to be profoundly wrong at 20 years previously. 09:37 And he answered, said, you just don’t understand what science is all about, prestige and money. So what year was that that you wrote to? 1968, I think, in the fall when I started the university. And just after a few more months working with the nerve biology brain people, I found that the reproductive biologist was actually a scientist who, when I observed things that were counter to the dogma, he said, is it repeatable? Then go ahead. Great. So he had an open mind to science. Yeah, and the nerve biologist said that he wouldn’t even look at the experiments that I was doing. All of my experiments showed something contrary to the nerve dogma. 10:39 And my professor would just turn instantly so he didn’t have to see what the instruments were showing. That is the thrust of, and I definitely haven’t spoken to you, Dr. Pete, since early on the week before we even invited Brad and Jeremy to the show, but that’s exactly the thrust of where tonight’s show is going. So the scientists that we mentioned earlier, sorry, we haven’t mentioned the scientists yet, but I was saying earlier that you have, in the course of the last several years, whenever we do radio shows, you’ll always throw out these eminent scientists’ name and we look at them like Gerald Pollack and May Wanhoe and Gilbert Ling, etc. And Jeremy and Brad took it upon themselves to go take a list of these people and go see if they could track them down and film them. I know. I want to know how that came about when Jeremy and Brad were talking to you, Ray. Well, one minute. I just wanted to say at this point in time in pre-production, the editing stage, they have produced a fantastic couple of minutes movie clip showing all the different people that they’ve interviewed, and these people are all on the cutting edge. 11:43 They’re all PhD, they’re professors, they’re research scientists. They’re all very respectable people who’ve produced works in published journals, etc. And they are directly refuting some long-held tenants and dogma of science that most people just get faced with by their doctors because their doctors are not reading research. So the whole thrust of tonight’s show was not only to bring out these scientists and their various different aspects of what they’re looking at in science, but to let people know that they can find out more about this movie that’s being created by going to www.perceivethinkact. So perceivethinkact is the main link. Dotcom. Dotcom, of course. You can just put that perceivethinkact in a Google search bar. It’ll take you straight to their website and you’ll be able to see what the work that they’re doing. So, yeah, the main thing is I wanted to go through the different scientists that Dr. Pete’s mentioned in past that Jeremy and Brad went to see on different continents and get a feeling for the kind of science that they’ve put together in, I don’t know, how many hours. 12:50 How many hours do you think you took all together and how many hours do you think the DVD will be? Oh, well, in terms of raw footage so far, we’ve shot hundreds of hours. Yeah, 200 hours. Yeah, the final project will be, you know, feature film length, but perhaps we’re going to explore maybe shorter series that could cover more ground as well. Okay, cool. Okay, so Dr. Pete, how did you come up with the idea for Brad and Jeremy or Brad and Jeremy, how did you come up with it to interview these other scientists? Well, it was the original film conversation we had with Dr. Pete talking about this idea and he mentioned or had asked, had we thought about talking to Harold Hillman and we had heard of Harold Hillman, but hadn’t really looked into him. And he mentioned, you know, a couple other names, May Wan Ho, and we started, you know, diving deeper into their work and realizing there’s a much larger story to tell here. 13:58 And that really sparked this quest to then sort of check off all of the people who’s what seemed like disparate theories, Ray has connected the dots and woven together into what we think is a fairly cohesive new model for the workings of life. That’s why I keep telling Dr. Pete, we need to write a book that’s called the Pete manual instead of the Merck manual, you know, the Pete manual. Who knows? Okay, so let’s start with Dr. May Wan Ho just because you have first hand knowledge of her and you’ve met her and maybe you can just give an outline of May Wan Ho’s background, her philosophy and, you know, her character. She’s covered a lot of different topics. I think probably what she’s known for being most controversial on is GMOs. But mainly what we talked to her about is her study of basically quantum biology and the crystalline structure of organisms. 15:07 And she did a number of experiments using a type of microscope that I think generally used in geology. And it’s basically uses polarized light and allows you to look at generally like the structure of crystals and rocks. But she found that the small organisms had the same sort of crystalline structure in a, you know, liquid form. And I think that was kind of an inspiring paradigm shifting thought to her. Okay. And it fits in with things like, you know, structured water and thinking about the organism in a way that it’s in the mechanistic views of science and various sorts of chemical biology is totally counter to that type of thinking. Okay. So we have the book Rainbow and the Worm, which is kind of all about that. Rainbow in the… I think it’s called the rainbow and the worm. 16:09 And the worm. And the worm. Okay, got it. Okay. And that also, those findings to her that connected with criticisms against neo-dharmonism as well. If the organism is not fundamentally so mechanistic and much more fluidic and subtle, then it would support, lay support to the theories more, you know, in line with Sydney Fox and others. Okay. Well, Dr. Pete, given that you are on the show, let’s just quickly ask you of a rundown for May 1, if you like, just because you’ve always… You’re the one that’s been mentioning her in the first instance. What springs to your mind? That image of the worm really is one of the most important things that people should start thinking about. The quantum biology, I think Albert St. Georgie actually was the one that motivated people to start going in the direction of electronic biology and a coherent view of the cell. 17:32 May 1 whole is, to a great degree, an extension of some of Albert St. Georgie’s ideas. Okay. All right. Moving on to Harold Hillman then, I think he’s the next person. First of all, when did you first interview May 1 whole? What date are we looking at now? Well, we actually started with Harold Hillman. Oh, you did? Yes, but only a few days before May 1 whole. It was around the 15th of April of last year. Okay. Yeah. So you went to England? Yes. Planning our first trip. We wanted to knock several interviews out at once, and there were several people in England. So there was Harold Hillman in May 1 whole. Harold was our first interview, and then two days later we went to see May 1 whole. Tell me a little bit about Harold Hillman and his background and what he was like and what he’s contributed to the documentary. Well, the crux of his work is his criticisms of traditional microscopy as well as electron. 18:41 These are the electron microscope in that most of the structures we see when we’re looking through them are artifacts, and this is because of the processing that what was once living material has to go through, and it would make your head spin hearing him list. All of the things that, you know, the dehydration, dying, smashing, and what you’re left with is something that bears almost no resemblance to an actual living cell. So then how can you learn about the living cell when what you’re looking at is basically artifacts? And is he saying that this is still happening in mainstream biology? This is still the norm? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He made a film, sorry, on YouTube there’s old films of his that you can watch, and it’s still, it’s pretty pertinent today. It’s really simple, which is what I think makes his criticisms so inflammatory is he just shows his side by side of his cell being prepared for a microscope slide, and you’ve 19:46 got the living cell on one side looking like a transparent blob, and then after it goes through all of the steps of being, you know, washed in alcohol and various other compounds, it’s like about the third the size and all squashed and squiggly looking. Does he do anything with live blood microscopy? He not himself personally, but he, you know, he did, we asked him about the techniques currently in use that do let you look at or at least more accurate than light microscopy or the electron microscope. And going back to what Dr. Pete had experienced when he was a student, you know, his professor not even wanting to look at what he was doing, similar with Dr. Hillman, his work was so difficult to criticize that people would just leave the room when he would come in at scientific conferences. They would literally turn around and run away because they just didn’t want to hear him 20:50 speak. They’d rather keep their paycheck coming in than actually look at what the science might be showing them. Unfortunately, in the medical world and all the scientific world, the ego, I think gets in the way so much that people don’t even see the truth when it’s right in front of them. But yeah, at the same time, there are people that have very alternative ways of looking at things like Dr. Pete and the people that you’ve seen. So this again is a part point of your documentary is to illustrate, I think from that first instance, you talked about Harold being the first person you saw as pretty interesting because he’s the person who’s you’re saying is refuting a lot of what microscopy is revealing. Yeah, exactly. Where it all stems from, yeah, Rotten Foundation is basically. Okay. There was a famous Swedish electron microscopy expert named Fritjof Sjöström who did a lot of very clear explanation using different fixatives showing how profound the artifacts are in 21:55 standard preparations. And he was a mainstream researcher, but the mainstream simply overlooked his work on the artifacts. Okay, well, let’s move on to Dr. Gerald Pollack. A lot of people that are listening to the show may well have heard his name mentioned in the past and may well know him from his structured water. He’s called the water wizard, I think they call him that. Go ahead, either one of you want to start and tell us a little bit about Gerald Pollack and what you gain from his interview. Well, yeah, he’s really known probably more widely than anyone else that we’ve interviewed so far as far as having, he’s got mainstream talks. He’s done a TED talk and his focus today is really on what they generally call structured water, another phase that, you know, it’s one of those topics. 23:02 I think he’s really unpopular in his department because he has chosen to study something that seems like obviously it’s already been figured out. But they do some fairly simple experiments to show that there are more unusual, electrically based forms of water and they create, they call it easy water, the exclusion zone, when you get the water building up on a surface and it purifies itself, basically everything becomes excluded from it and that seems to be the exact kind of water, how water is structured inside cells. So it has all sorts of implications for further understanding biology. And he found that one of the substances that seems to create easy water or structured water with the most affinity is aspirin, which we found very interesting in that it has such 24:04 broad effects in the body and if it’s connected to that attribute of it. Yeah, the stabilizing effect of water. Okay, Dr. P, I know you’ve always been a proponent of aspirin for quite a wide range of different conditions in inflammatory generally, but do you have anything to say on Gerald Pollack? Oh, everything he’s been doing in recent years is just extremely interesting. He has developed some theories on how light energy infrared is used in building structure in water and there’s a young German named Andrei Sommer, S-O-M-M-E-R, who is working with red light structuring water. A very similar and very concrete demonstration of what on a bigger scale is working on. 25:15 So is that some of the reason why red light is so anti-inflammatory because of its effects on the water of the cell? Yeah, I think that’s part of it. Oh, it’s a good time of year to get your red light, folks. It’s nice and sunny here in California. It was also just really heartening to see Gerald’s lab. You know, it’s easy to feel gloomy when pondering all the ills in our medical and scientific establishments, but Gerald’s lab is full of young and excited, inspired scientists that are working on all sorts of interesting endeavors that it made us hopeful for the next generation. Yeah, one of his students, who I think is sort of the top guy under him now, originally did a project trying to disprove him. And I think he spent, you know, a year and then he proved to himself basically that Gerald 26:18 was doing good science and joined his side. Excellent. Okay, so from the first three that we mentioned there, May One Ho, Harold Hillman, and Gerald Pollack, they’re all doctors, but didn’t say that to begin with. So starting with May One Ho, then looking at polarized light and quantum biology, criticizing the neo-Darwinism that’s kind of so prevalent in the scientific community. And then Harold Hillman, the microscopist, looking at microscopy as, or what’s being done in microscopy as being poor science and actually very damaging, if you like, to the subject that’s being visualized and how that can impact various experiments. And then also then Gerald Pollack and structured water. So I know we’ve got several other scientists that I’d like you to cover that you’ve been with. But first of all, just let me let people know who are listening. This is our career doctor on KME de Galvoville, 91.1 FM. And we’re interviewing Jeremy and Brad. And let me just get this right. It is Jeremy Stewart and Brad Abrahams. 27:20 Yes. And Dr. Pete is with us. Although I thought Dr. Pete actually was going to have the evening off. But we’re glad that he’s here. Yeah, we’re very glad too, Dr. Pete. So we definitely appreciate that. But these two gentlemen are documentary filmmakers and they have done the seemingly impossible and interviewed eight of the scientists that Dr. Pete has been talking about for many years now when he brings out his various different anecdotes as he always does and have producing a fantastic documentary film kind of unifying all of the theories. I think in some ways that Dr. Pete is able to understand that all these people working in their individual fields are contributing all the same sort of unifying knowledge to an approach and teamwork to approaching disease that is so radical and hopefully it’s about time for mainstream science to wake up and some people to see what’s going on. We’ve always said, you know, for those who have ears, listen and let them hear. 28:21 So they can be reached at www.perceivethinkact.com. So go ahead and check them out on the web and see the work they’re doing. It’s really quite special. Let’s move on then, Brad and Jeremy, to Dr. Gilbert Ling. Tell us a little bit about this fellow. And I think actually in some ways the next couple of people seem to be getting on in their years. They’ve been doing it for a long time. So let’s talk about Gilbert Ling. Well, Gilbert I think now is 96, I believe. And when we saw him, he was in shockingly good health. Living alone in a mansion basically running up and down the stairs, doing everything for himself. The only issue really being his hearing. But recently he had a health complication and is now not able to live on his own. Unfortunately, yeah. But he seems to be getting back to his old self, which is good to hear. But it’s really difficult to sum up Gilbert’s past and achievements. 29:28 But he’s most known for disproving the sodium pump hypothesis, which is at the root of all basically thought on physiology and the role of the cell membrane in that sodium pump hypothesis. And his hypothesis called the associative induction hypothesis. It basically details a totally different, totally unconventional model of how the cell works. And it’s based only on physics and chemistry. Right. Actual science. Yeah. That’s what’s so forward thinking about it. It’s scientific and reproducible, you’re saying. It’s something that’s… Yeah. He’s done possibly thousands of experiments showing the work and improving it. That have all but been ignored. And they won’t even… If he submits a paper to… Even on an unrelated subject to any journal, they reject it just saying… 30:32 Immediately. Yeah. They don’t even read it. They just sent him a rejection notice because of his name. Wow. Now, Dr. Pete, I know that when we’ve spoken to you in the past… And I, again, unfortunately went through an education where it was very science-based and it was the same kind of erroneous science… Not really science-based. Wow. It pretended to be science-based, but really it was just medical dogma. We still had sodium pumps and potassium pumps and all that kind of stuff moving, allowing things to be transported across the cell. And I know, Dr. Pete, that you’ve… You’re very anti the membrane pump idea, saying that actually cells are very fluid and elastic and they flow and they move and they make space between the cells for things to enter and exit. And actually, this is a much better and holistic approach to the physiology of the cell. Yeah. Wasn’t the cell membrane theory just brought about by Big Pharma so they could try to explain how their drugs are working? Well, sort of the… 31:34 I think it really relates to neo-darwinism and the genetic idea that they want to get away from the idea that life is somehow stable. And so it’s more like a machine which has to run to keep itself in a given state. But Gilbert Ling showed that even if you turn off the energy supply, the cell is stable for many hours. The sodium keeps going in and going out but the cell retains the life-like imbalance between sodium and potassium and all of the life-like properties don’t require energy. They simply require the structure of the water and the whole living system. And there are just apparently an infinite number of ways of looking at that to confirm Gilbert Ling’s view 32:42 but the absurd, the need to see things in this mechanical way makes people overlook the facts and believe absurd things. In an electron microscope course that I took, I decided to try different fixatives. I had read Schostrand’s, some of his publications. And simply by using a different fixative, my cells were nothing but membranes. Membranes all the way through. And so I looked at the origin of how they got the first membrane. And in an old medical book, 19th century ideas, I saw that doctors treated ulcers and burns with osmic acid, 33:43 osmic tetraxide, to create what they called the false membrane. And that was a standard medical term so it was in the consciousness of the people who were working on cells. And the first preparations for electron microscopy of cells showed no membranes at all but they believed that there had to be membranes. And apparently someone recalled that old medical concept of creating a false membrane to seal up a wound. And they applied the osmic acid to living cells and created, in fact, a membrane which was about ten times thicker than they eventually decided they needed. So they refined the technique. Now they have approximately the right thickness of membrane. And just how they’ve never been able to find one of their hundreds of pumps that they’ve invented. 34:49 And anytime there’s a new thing that goes in and out of the cell, they have to create a new pump, add a new pump to the list. If you wash all of the ions out of hair and dip hair in the serum, it picks up the proper ions and excludes sodium. So apparently dead hair has all of the necessary pumps. The working pumps. I was going to say one more thing about Gilbert Lang that I think he’s not more well known because he’s got an impressive academic career. He’s really intelligent and he speaks at such a high level that it’s pretty difficult to follow along sometimes what he’s saying unless you have like degrees in biochemistry. And so reading his books is really challenging, especially for Lehmann. Even for a scientist. Yeah. Well, that’s why we appreciate Dr. Ray Pete so much. Exactly. 35:50 Because you’re able to put all these pieces together and make a coherent picture that we can understand. So let’s go on to, let’s see here, Dr. Michael Persinger. He was one that was not initially on our list, but someone that Brad and I both had mutual interest in prior to ever, I think even hearing about Ray. But we were really surprised at how well he ended up fitting in the interview phase. And I guess he is listed as studying Paris psychology. But basically he’s done a huge amount of work on the effects of fields on life, on consciousness. And he’s most well known for what’s now a very old experiment. And if you just search for the God helmet on YouTube, you’ll see videos on that experiment showing electromagnetic stimulation of the right hemisphere inducing a sensed presence in quite a few people. 36:58 Okay, as if they perceive something, they perceive a person normal. Yeah, and it’s like a closed eye experience in a sealed room wearing a scooter helmet. And for, you know, is it an experience that’s induced in people who seem to be sensitive to it and then totally filtered by their cultural eye? Like if someone was highly religious, they might have some kind of God experience. Okay. And so that, well, that’s kind of, I think, what most people know him from. But he’s done decades of other more advanced work since then. But he has lots to say about operating in the system, doing controversial study and proposing radical ideas and doing good science and showing the effects. Basically, I think it’s really controversial to do anything with fields. Okay. And he’s done a lot of work showing how sensitive life is to electromagnetic fields. 38:02 How many, I just have to ask a question here at this point. Yeah. How many of these people that you’ve interviewed up to this person, Dr. Michael Persinger, are marginalized? All of them. Oh, really? Yeah. I’d say the one who’s least marginalized is Gerald Pollack, but even in his case, he’s often… He’s trading a fine line, huh? Well, at risk of his, I mean, he’s had his funding taken away from him and is always at risk of that as well as constant attacks from other professors that feel threatened. Michael Persinger has seemed to have carved out a niche for himself in the bitter north of Canada at a small university. And I think that allows him to do what he wants to do and have the facilities that he needs to do it. He doesn’t have the same introspection, huh? Okay. All right. Maybe it’s because he’s in Canada. Well, let’s move on to the next person on this. 39:04 Probably one of my… I’m as drawn to this person as I am to Dr. Harold Hillman just because Dr. Harold Hillman’s British. But Dr. Fred Kummerow, he’s 100 years old now, isn’t he? Yes. He looks so good for his age, folks. People that are listening here, Dr. Fred Kummerow, K-U-M-M-E-R-O-W, he’s 100 years old. And I’m sure Dr. Peat will have something to say about him as well as both of you, Brad and Jeremy, but he was very into demonizing polyunsaturates a long time ago. And his skin looks so good. You’ve met him in person. What’s he like? Yes. It’s even… He looks even better than you’d imagine. Okay. He has no age spots or the lipoflexicin anywhere. Okay, okay. And his hair, while gray, he has a full head of hair. It’s nice and soft. Nice full set of teeth. Did you touch his hair? No, but it’s looking very soft. And he basically had, for his adult life, avoided any added polyunsaturated fats in his diet. 40:12 That I think is… Tell us all about him. Well, he’s most recently known for success in his 60 year long tireless crusade against trans fats, which is something that everyone sort of knows now that is bad for their health. But what is not reported is he basically says very similar things about the polyunsaturated fats. And when we told him, since he’s quite old and he’s not really connected into the modern health world, when we told him that fish oil is sold as supplements and people drink flax oil, he literally physically recoiled knowing the harm that it can do to health. And it has caused some people to die young. And yeah, it actually horrified him that it’s a billion dollar industry that all it’s doing is harming your health. 41:17 Yeah, it’s pretty sad, isn’t it? Go ahead. Is there anything else you want to say about Dr. Fred Kumrow having met him and then maybe I’ll ask Dr. Pete what he has to think about him? No, he’s just, you know, it’s inspiring to see, you know, he’s getting older and recently in a wheelchair because of a swimming related accident at 97. So, you know, age is starting to take its toll at 100 for him, but he’s still doing active research at the lab and working on some novel compounds related to Alzheimer’s and other neurodegenerative diseases that have to do with with oxidization of the polyunsaturated path. And I just want to let our listeners know that if you visit this website, www.perceivethinkact, you can see a short clip, a short video clip of all of these doctors we’re talking about this evening. I don’t know if that’s been mentioned, but. Okay. And just for some context on the website. 42:18 Yeah, please do. Go ahead. www.perceivethinkact.com is our, it’s just like the journal of our, of our, it’s our journey of making the film. So it’s the production journal and in chronological order, it has a post for each of our shoots with every subject we’ve had and pictures and videos from, from the shoots. And I think also important to note that we’re not finished shooting. We’ve only really shot about, you know, 30 to 40%!o(MISSING)f the material. There’s a lot. Yeah. There’s a lot of people that we still want to interview. Like how are you going to get them all into a one and a half hour DVD? It’s going to be a compendium, isn’t it? The magic of editing. Yeah. I’m not too sure how you’re going to cut enough out to get it all into a small movie without cutting out some very good information. But anyway, I’ll leave that to you guys. You guys are the film pros. So I’ll leave that to you. But let’s, let’s talk a little bit more then. Got a couple more subjects and then we can actually, yes, I wanted to ask Dr. Pete. 43:21 Dr. Pete, I don’t want you just to be on the sidelines. I know you’re probably fairly happy, but hopefully not, not too, not too tired. What do you, what do you have to say about Dr. Michael Persinger from your, your experience and or your, your work? Where, where has he led you if, if anywhere in his journey? Well, my interest in fields went way back. My brother was a radio ham and had a lot of electronic equipment that I from, I guess the age of nine or so had the opportunity to play with. And so the electrical properties of all of my acquaintances, seeing how aging affected the conductivity and so on kept me constantly aware of the electrical magnetic properties of organisms. And in 1968, I went to Russia, largely to talk to a man working in what, what he called a magneto biology as opposed to bio magnetics. 44:36 He concentrated on the effects of fields on organisms rather than the fields produced by the organisms. And one of my very first experiments at the university after I got back was with a strong magnet that my brother made for me and looking at its effect on a crab nerve. And I could see that just the presence of a strong magnetic field apparently affected, I interpreted it as affecting the structure of the water. The latent period, there was a delay between stimulation and reaction in the presence of a magnetic field. I also paid attention to the fields that I produced, electrical fields that would, some of the things like a millivolt meter, I couldn’t operate because my field would, from about a foot away, they would go off scale. 45:55 So my lab partner had to handle the knobs on those things. So it’s all very interesting actual practical experimentation showing that fields do not just subtly but grossly affect nerve impulses and or electric activity in the body. And that’s, I’ve been a lot of the basis for your outcry, if you like, against radiation and x-rays and, you know, all the other visualization techniques that are used in medicine as being very harmful. Very subtle fields have very big effect organisms. OK. What about, I don’t want to take too long with that one, but how about Dr. Fred Kumaro and his background in trans fat, trying to keep, trying to ban trans fats? The trans fats normally occur in butter at an intermediate stage and the conjugated linoleic acid is the next step in shifting the unsaturation. 47:07 And the very beneficial effects of conjugated linoleic acid, I think, are because they block some of the toxic effects of the normal linoleic acid and other polyunsaturated fats. So even though cow’s milk and butter contain some trans fats, they also contain the beneficial next step, the conjugated form of unsaturated fat. OK. Yeah, and Dr. Kumaro’s criticism is more about the artificially created trans fats rather than the naturally in dairy, another one. He’s got nothing against butter. Yeah, he likes butter. Yeah, it’s all about the wholesale production then of trans fats and pumping those into the food chain. Yes. Yeah. OK. Well, we’ve got 10 minutes left here and time goes so quickly, unfortunately, but just want to let people that are listening know this is Ask Your Herb Doctor, KMUD 91.1 FM. 48:19 We’ve interviewed Dr. M&P, thankfully, for quite a while and he’s spoken on many different subjects and he’s mentioned many different eminent scientists in that time. And fortunately, the step has been made where these two gentlemen filmmakers that we’re interviewing now have actually gone and interviewed these eight scientists and they’re actually talking about interviewing quite a few more. But they are in the process of producing a documentary and they do have, excuse me, a very good clip, a taste of things to come. If only people will go there and see what’s going on. Their website is www.perceivethinkact.com. The name of the documentary that’s in progress is On the Back of a Tiger. OK, so let’s just go on to Danny Roddy and his background. He’s probably the only non-doctor so far, isn’t he? So far, yeah. There’s sort of two sides to the film and we’ve focused so far on the scientists, but the other piece is what we’ve been calling the health seekers, people who have used this information to empower themselves and take their health into their own hands. 49:29 And he’s someone who’s had his own health journey and now he’s, I guess you could call him a health blogger. His main focus is on hair loss specifically. Interesting. But he’s, I think, probably read almost anything that is available that Ray has written ever. OK. And he’s got no formal academic background, but he’s learned an incredible amount on his own and I think really had a huge journey learning to understand his own sort of metabolism and stress. And he’s applied this to himself and this has been kind of groundbreaking Gestalt’s moment where he’s, wow. Exactly. Yeah. He’s been on, I think, the roller coaster that a lot of us can relate to with trying to solve your own health problems and thankfully has come out on top with a, and now able to connect with people. 50:35 I think that’s why he connects so well with people is he’s been where a lot of people are now and has the gift of taking those very complex scientific theories and translating them so anyone can understand them. Yeah. Good. I mean, that’s always been the challenge, isn’t it? Science is sometimes so, so chewy. It’s a lot to get your teeth into sometimes and sometimes it’s, the language is almost a different language and therefore it needs a translation to put it into a context of everyday language so people can truly understand it. That’s what we try and do with Dr. Peake, because sometimes he’s very scientific sometimes and other times, you know, doesn’t sound quite so difficult to understand. Well, it depends who he’s talking to. Sometimes when it was just you and Dr. Peake on the radio show, you guys got a little carried away in science because you’re talking to each other. Anyway, so you actually went and interviewed Dr. Peake. Now, Dr. Peake is probably the unwitting star of the show, but you interviewed Dr. Peake here and obviously you got to share with him and he got to share with you and what I can gather is that again, 51:40 I think he’s kind of unifying the theories of all these different scientists and applying it to health and the perspective of health and kind of meeting the challenges of the way health and medicine is working or not working in this day and age with people and how dogma is just so entrenched as is the ego I think in the science community that it fails to see sometimes the obvious and doesn’t allow that ego to fall to one side to let the facts come through and then support them by being a little bit out on the edge of the field as it were. So you interviewed Dr. Peake and unfortunately, I know we’ve only got five minutes left, but you can talk briefly about Dr. Peake, but let us have a little bit of time just to remind people where they can find out more about you because you’ve got a great film that you put in together. So Dr. Peake, very briefly, you got a couple of minutes, I think. So, well, one of the, you know, the thing about the working scientists and people who have spent their life in science is they focus on a little tiny area and they’re not usually fully aware of the larger context that they may be helping to expand. 52:53 And so I think Ray’s work, it kind of puts all of these people into a paradigm that all makes sense together into a much more holistic view. And really, what is the worth of all of this scientific inquiry if you can’t apply it practically to people’s health and nutrition? And I think that’s where nearly everyone we’ve interviewed somewhat misses the mark in that they don’t think about it that way. They don’t think, well, how does this apply to me? They’re looking down the microscope, exactly. Yes, and that’s where one of the many realms where Dr. Peake’s work resonates with us and so many other people. And I also think that Dr. Peake helps people take their health into their own hands and he encourages them and gets them to start looking at, well, what do you feel like after you eat that food or what do you feel like after you do that? And that is so important because we are the ones that know ourselves the best. 54:00 And a doctor teaching a patient to do that is very, very contrary to the authoritarian medical system we have today. And it’s funny, it’s kind of surreal being on your show tonight because your show, it’s one of the few resources to hear Dr. Peake talk on so many different subjects. And Brad and I both have spent so much time listening to your recorded shows as research for the film. Yeah, interesting. Thanks for your interest. Yeah, we’re finally on the other side. I didn’t even know this at about three days ago, folks, but anyway. I’d heard about Brad and Jeremy early, I think late 2013, and they said what they were going to do and I was like, okay, great, sounds like a great idea. And we went backwards and forwards with a few emails, but we never got to actually meet or talk. And then the next thing I was, they’ve done it. So I take my hat off to you and I hope, and I know that you probably really enjoyed it. 55:02 And I think you’re going to certainly exceed most people’s expectations. And I really wish both of you the very best in your work and also in getting the funding that is going to be necessary here to put this together. Yeah, the very first post, if you go to our site, proceedthinkact.com has a link to the Kickstarter campaign where you can donate or share around with friends and family. I know it’s doing pretty good. So that’s a good, good, good sign. And lastly, Dr. P, can you comment on the film that Jeremy and Brad are producing here? In about a minute. The bits that I’ve seen, it’s very much fun to watch those people. I had seen, I spoke briefly to Gilbert Ling in 1971, but it’s good to see newer stuff about him and the others. 56:05 Well, if it wasn’t for people like you, Dr. P, and all the people that Jeremy and Brad have actually gone and seen and videoed and gotten real live footage of, it wouldn’t be able to reach people and people wouldn’t get to know about such alternatives. So in keeping alternatives alive, I thank all of the three of you for being here and you, Dr. P, I didn’t even know you were going to be on the air, but thanks so much. Thank you for all your time. Okay, so. Thank you, everyone. You’re very welcome. Okay, so until the third Friday of next month, my name’s Andrew Murray. My name’s Sarah Johanneson Murray. And we can be reached 1-888-WBM-URB Monday through Friday or any time. In fact, people just want to contact us for whatever it is. So our website also is www.westernpotanicalmedicine.com. And don’t forget, Perceive, Think, Act. So that’s the best way you want to go, www.perceivethinkact. It’s really very interesting. You should see it. And Dr. Raymond Pete’s website is www.r-

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