Ray Peat Rodeo
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00:00 Hello everyone, I’m Danny Roddy of DannyRoddy.com and today I’m talking with painter, philosopher, biologist Raymond Pete. In this hour-long episode we’ll talk about the creation of the CIA and its primary role in shaping the US culture through painting, music, language, literature, economics, philosophy, religion, social activism, and politics. In addition to thanking Ray for talking to me today, I’d like to thank my patrons for making this show and all of the content I produce possible. If you would like to become a patron, please go to patreon.com slash DannyRoddy. As always, please do your own research and come to your own conclusions and in the spirit of William Blake, the true method of knowledge is experiment. Without further ado, here’s the show. 01:09 I feel like I just like crammed for a test, but I’ve been, I read your newsletter. I read the article, I forget his name, Paul Grain. I’ve read like a few people distilling down that book because I couldn’t get ahold of it. I read the David Talbot book and I kind of reviewed through that, and then I found like a list of CIA atrocities, which was mind blowing. And then you talking about the Indonesian genocide, I had no idea that’s what the act of killing and the sound of silence were about. And I mean, I knew it was the general idea, but I didn’t put it together. And those movies made like a huge impact on me a few years ago. And so I was pretty shocked. And so I guess, like starting things off, I guess it might be interesting to get your current read on the political situation, because for me, that was the thing that got me interested in exploring the past. Like how did we end up here? And your newsletter, specifically when you said that the 02:10 CIA was, I have a good glare on my screen here, they were treating the world like an orchard fertilizing some trees pruning others and removing unwanted trees and weeds. That was just really interesting to me. And so I was like, okay, well, if you go back in the past, maybe you can figure out how we got here. And so I guess your general thoughts on like free speech, this left, right thing, the media and like race tensions and it being more interesting coming from you because you’ve lived through Vietnam civil rights, etc. I think the place you decided to start it is sort of arbitrary. My consciousness started early during the Roosevelt time. And are you aware? I was going to ask you, I was going to get your general thoughts on the current situation and then jump right back into like Pearl Harbor. But we can start, do you want to go with Pearl Harbor first or go for the place that you wanted to go? Well, one perspective I have that 03:12 sort of brings things up to the present. If you look at the coup against FDR in 1933 and 34, as described to Congress by Smedley Butler, they went basically quiet for several years. The coupists, the great corporations of the country that wanted to get rid of Roosevelt because he was committing treason to their class, they thought, and they went quiet and focused on Harry Truman in the late 1930s as their guy who they put in place finally in 1944. And then, as I see it, they opportunately killed Roosevelt just before he found out what Alan Dulles was doing with the Nazis. And so they had Truman in place when they shifted over to the 04:14 Nazi Dulles side. And during that time, Fletcher Proudy during the Second World War was involved in a lot of the secret plans going on in Asia. And he tells a little about that in his book, The Secret Team, which refers to the sort of privately operated CIA as related to Nixon and the Kennedy assassination. And along this stretch of time, you have people like Ted Shackley and Ronald Reagan getting put in place with the assistance of George G. H. W. Bush and the October Surprise, you know, where he went to Paris, I think, was to make deals with the Iranians for them not to release the hostages until they got Jimmy Carter out of office on the airplane to Paris with Bush as high officials that everyone knew who was there. 05:20 John Senator John Heinz and John Tower, conservative right-wing Republicans, were on that same flight. And several years later, on successive days, April 4 and April 5 of 91, they both died in airplane crashes. And the people who were in a position to know what George Sr. and his associates were doing all came to bad ends. Nixon and Slesinger got put out through Watergate, and Carter got put out by various manipulations such as the October Surprise. And all of these things interact. And periodically, someone starts to string the pieces together, and they very thoroughly get wiped out as far as anything taken seriously goes. Like, do you know about Daniel Sheehan and the Christic Institute? 06:22 He did a lot of putting together and sued the government for murder and assassination and such. And even though he had the evidence together, his organization was destroyed because the judge said it was frivolous. And he had to pay all of the legal expenses, and that bankrupted his organization. Is this along the same lines? This is why I was looking at the JFK stuff. And I’m skipping super far ahead here. But they said like Edward J. Epstein was like one of the biggest critics. And the idea was that the CIA had enough fortitude, I don’t know the right word, but they were saying they set up their critics, set up opposition to the ideas so that it would be controlled, basically, afterwards. Yeah, I quoted the, I think it was Brayden who said he called it his mighty whirlator that could play any tune he wanted. And their best loudspeakers 07:23 were Washington Post, New York Times. And the Washington Post was one of the most effective in wiping out people like Kristic Institute. And that’s Operation Mockingbird, they call it? Oh, yeah. That was one of its time names. But basically, it’s just what they do. When I was reading David Talbot’s book, he said like Henry Loos, the time life guy, was so interconnected to everybody. And these major news outlets just had hardcore agendas. And we’re all being manipulated by Dulles, basically. Oh, yeah, they’re all the same people. The CIA guys were recruited from among those. It’s like the scum of the ruling class. Okay, stepping back a little bit, you had mentioned a few times that you thought like the culture had changed in 1947. And so I thought it was interesting that that coincided with the creation of the CIA. And I guess if you wanted unpack that and talk about that a little bit, that would be awesome. 08:24 The 1944 Democrat Convention, I knew several people who were there. And they stayed just furiously bitter for 50 years afterwards about what happened. Fake tickets were printed up for people who had never been in the election. And the real delegates were shout out. So it was a completely funny convention that chose Truman to be the next president. Who do you think was behind that? That same group that started the coup in 33 and 34, just the top Morgan and DuPont were the only names that I recall. But it was the top powers in the corporations. They got Truman in position. And then Dulles had been a Nazi finance agent between the banks and the corporations of Germany, Rockefeller and the Farben. So he was a buddy with all of the top Nazis. And he was in 09:31 Switzerland dealing with the Nazis, arranging for them not to fight the Americans coming up the Italian peninsula so that they could go hold off the Russians to keep the Russians from getting all the way through Germany. And Stalin, through his spies, found out what was going on in first week or two of April of 1945. And Roosevelt said, maybe Stalin is losing it because this couldn’t be happening. Stalin must be making it up that Dulles is letting the German Italian branch of the army head to the Eastern Front. And before FTR found out that in fact, Stalin was right, he was dead. And if he had found out, that would have revealed that Dulles was leading a pro-Nazi army basically, dealing with the Galen intelligence organization and the top army people to unite 10:36 the Americans with the Nazis against Russia to hold them off so that they could keep control of Western Europe. And so the whole denazification thing in Germany was fraudulent. They just changed their party labels. And as many of them, of the technical people as possible, were brought into the U.S. very nerdy brown for the rockets and such. And instead of denazifying Germany, the U.S. was not defied. You were actually there. Were there any people saying like, what is going on? Like, how are these Nazis being brought over here? And was anybody asking those questions? Or was the press just not doing its job? Almost no one was concerned that they said they were denazified, so they’re okay. They were really the good underground Nazis. And the Nazi reality never 11:37 sank in the thing of Conrad Lorenz getting the Nobel Prize. He was the architect of genocide. And even in his post-Nobel book, he kept using all of the ideas that he had presented to Hitler as the reason for exterminating Black people, Gypsies, Jews, Slavs, all of the people that got killed wholesale were justified by the specific things that Conrad Lorenz wrote, and he kept writing them. But instead of saying, I forget what the German word was, but in his newer book, he said something less intense than extirpated, something like milder, like weeded out. I don’t remember the exact language, but it was just slightly milder than genocide. 12:39 It reminds me of Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize for dropping bombs for eight years. Okay, so 1947, the creation of the CIA under Truman. President Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947, and that gives like no rules to the CIA. By that time, he knew who Alan Dulles was if he had any brain at all. That whole thing, it became fairly public, except it didn’t get to Roosevelt in time to save his life. I might have missed it, but why was it necessary to kill Roosevelt? Well, because Dulles and his people were all committing horrible treason and setting up the Cold War, setting up Europe to make war against Russia. And if Stalin was aware of everything that was going on, was there no way for him to penetrate the propaganda that would be coming or was happening? 13:41 No, because the troop box was being operated by Dulles and his people. And that’s the Congress for cultural freedom, or that’s just one aspect of it? Well, yeah, and the radio stations and the great newspapers, and 95%!o(MISSING)f the newspapers followed Washington Post and New York Times. There were only three newspapers that were known for being independent, and they weren’t very independent. It was the, what were they, the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Medford Mail Tribune, and the El Cajon California Valley News. Three little newspapers that had a worldwide reputation for being independent out of thousands of papers in the U.S. Francis says, whether they liked it or not, whether they knew it or not, there were few writers, poets, artists, historians, scientists, or critics in post-war Europe whose 14:42 names were not in some way linked to this covert enterprise, and she was referring to Congress for cultural freedom. So, like, even if you didn’t know you were part of this cabal, you were actually part of it, basically. Yeah, the pressures, like if all of the newspapers and radio stations and foundations in the U.S. said it was criminal to think otherwise, if you had other opinions, you were just quiet, because everyone around you seemed crazy. Did you just keep your thoughts to yourself at that time? No, no, I was in the seventh grade in a social studies class. I hadn’t done things like the seventh grade boys were supposed to spend their recess time cleaning the grounds, picking up papers and such, and I put up posters showing a reclining gopher and organized the loafer gophers instead of the eager beavers, which they called 15:47 and got scolded for that, and then in the social studies class, a kid who, he was this kind of a goofy, nice kid, asked Mrs. White, the teacher, are they going to kill Raymond Pete for being a communist, if that’s the policy, and she said, I don’t think so. He’s a nice little boy. Oh my god. Okay, so Eisenhower, is he following the same line of being put in the presence like Truman or is he like the real deal? Basically, he was very stupid, but yeah, he was just following the ruling class, whatever they said. And Alan Dulles was CIA director in 1953 under Eisenhower? Yeah, and Eisenhower came out 16:50 by witness many years later that he had specifically given orders to kill Patrice Lamumba. I was going to ask you about that. Sorry, go ahead. And at the time, I was considering both Eisenhower and Kennedy who had been elected by that time as having been involved. Kennedy should have been, as President-elect, he should have been aware of what was happening because I was just reading the newspapers following everything day by day. And I started right out being very negative towards Kennedy. And so, just a few months, I think two or three months later, was when Doug Hommershold was killed in a plane crash. I figured that Kennedy must have been responsible because it was right in his administration under his authority that the CIA was there in charge of things. And Doug Hommershold had been 17:56 facilitating the imperialists in the Congo. The Belgian, British, and American agents were there and pretty much Hommershold was just doing what they wanted. But after Patrice Lamumba was killed, Hommershold suddenly started being even-handed and he was going to arrange peace discussions between the two sides. And that was when he got killed. And so, it was obviously an assassination. I want to get to Doug Hommershold and also George Day Mornschild. Do you want to set up just your thoughts on the antagonism between JFK and Dulles? I’m confused how somebody like that even got into office if I guess they hated him so much. So, the idea that everything is totally pre-selected is false. There are some… Well, his Kennedy’s point was to go after Eisenhower and Nixon for being weak on communism. And he said he would lead a great military buildup, which he did. And so, 18:58 he was the militarist’s candidate. He said that Eisenhower had let him in on the fact that they were going to invade Cuba. And part of his militarism was saying, Eisenhower has let Castro get away with everything. We’ll go after Castro. And so, he was the right-wing extremist in that election. And that really annoyed Nixon because Nixon had told him what they were going to do. And Nixon couldn’t say, wait, we’re already planning that. So, Kennedy was basically a rat for bad reasons. Okay. So, that conflicts with, I guess, just my… It always sounds like, at least from David Talbot and some of the other things that JFK was anti, or that he was a reasonable person. But I really have no idea. Another thing that annoyed me, he might really have been upset over the Emerson 20:01 killing because of what Emerson had in mind for Indonesia, which was to make Sukarno a puppet of US rather than leaving it with Netherlands. Kennedy had his way of controlling Indonesia without the formality of colonialism. But despite whatever relative good he saw for Indonesia, he was still thinking imperialism. And twice, he talked to his ambassador to Brazil, asking if it was basically a time to do a coup yet against João Goulart. And the ambassador said, when the time is opportune, but there was nothing urgent right then. Paul Grain describes some plot where they discovered some mineral that they wanted, and then Dulles was friends with George Morinchil. And do you want to help me out here? Yeah, neither Kennedy nor Hammersheld, nor just about anyone in the world, 21:06 knew about neither the high quality oil or the gold, and what was the other golden copper, I guess, were the two huge deposits in Indonesia. Dulles, Morinchil people had been secretive about that, so none of the authorities knew about it because they wanted to get the Dutch out before they let it become public. The Dutch companies would have taken over, but the Rockefeller people bought up the properties, and I think they still own it through a Phoenix-based company. Okay, so under the guise of anti-communism, the CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue for nothing more than declaring his neutrality in the Cold War. And according to Paul Grain or an article that was about his book, he said that Sukarno not siding with Dulles like enraged him. And if you weren’t against, 22:12 like the Bush thing, like if you’re not with us, you’re against us kind of deal? Yeah, that was all it was with Joel Goulart in Brazil, Kennedy. He’s looking slightly neutral, but we have to get rid of him right away or later. But when I read the list of atrocities through the CIA, it seemed just like bonkers, like that somebody is going to all these different areas, putting in their person, and it seemed good. They had the morality of Adolf Hitler with more brains. But I guess, do you see Dulles as the person driving all of these different things? Because it seems like it would take somebody like pretty, I don’t know, it just seems so, I mean, from an outsider looking in, it seems so complex how to manage all of these different like regime changes, basically. I think you have to visualize the ruling class and how it works. It has these 23:20 upper levels of academics and political lawyers for the big corporations are basically working like secretaries of state and intelligence, agency heads and such. So there’s a whole crop of these very well-informed people at the heart of both economic and political affairs. And so they’re like a worldwide sort of a course mesh, only a few hundred people on that level sitting on top of thousands of corporations, maybe three million or so ruling class people in America and Europe, they already have the power. And so the state power is fairly trivial compared to how we think of it. They see the state officials as inconveniences, but not too hard to get rid of. Two things. So one, the creation of the CIA gave this, would you use the word oligarchy, right? 24:25 So oligarchy gave a tool basically through the CIA to do whatever they wanted to do. And then to put yourself in this type of behavioral pattern, do you see it, and you mentioned this in your newsletter, like the neo-Darwinian marriage with Malthusianism, do you see that as like a type of elite or like power elite religion for them kind of to justify a lot of their crazy actions? Yeah, the science world is very similar to the finance politics world and has its intersections, not very many, but a few of the top science people are closely connected to the political power. But it’s all the same recognition of power and where they’re going and who they want to control for what purposes. And then, okay, so we’re talking about the Indonesian mass genocide, which happened in 1965 and 1966. Do you want to talk about the interesting connection between 25:30 Obama and his mom and Dunham and Lolo and his stepdad Lolo Sotoro? Am I saying that right? Well, what’s his name? Is this a reporter who did the… Let me get his name. Madsen. I think his picture is basically right that his grandmother was probably connected with the CIA as sort of a paymaster for people in the Pacific. And I don’t know exactly, but a friend of mine was sort of a tool of the Nugan Hand Bank, which was the CIA funnel from drug weapons money in Vietnam and Iran contra through the 60s and 70s that opium and weapons money was handled through the Australian and Hawaii. So I assume there’s been some interaction between the bank 26:33 that grandma Obama was her name as maternal grandmothers. I have it here somewhere. Anyway, the fact is that his mother was doing… Madeline and Stanley Dunham. Sorry. Dunham, yeah. She was, I think, the best president of the bank that was handling CIA money, but his mother was in that anthropology study. Pretty much the anthropology profession was serving the CIA, mapping out people to either exterminator or control, basically finding out how they talk like the… In Mexico and Latin America, it was the Summer Linguistics Institute, which codified the native languages and gave them written materials so they could be controlled better, learning how to give them 27:39 instructions, essentially. And anthropology and religious missionaries were tied into the CIA to gather information on the populations. And in Indonesia, it happened that the anthropology people were helping make surveys of basically who was to be exterminated by the new government to make sure that they didn’t go neutral or favor China. Backing up a little bit, you mentioned opium and how much of that is involved in the power elite, just like, I guess, funding things. I read a book on… Or not, I didn’t read. I perused a book on skull and bones, and they were saying that that whole thing is very tied to the sale of opium. And then I didn’t read enough before talking to you, but I had read similar things about the CIA, just drugs being very intertwined with everything, basically. Yeah, I think they use whatever has forced the religious missionaries or one way of doing it, 28:45 drugs are another, and just force is another. Okay, so we talked about the Indonesian mass genocide, which anybody listening, the act of killing, and the look of silence by Joshua Oppenheimer. Ray, have you seen those films? No, no. They’re really good. And then in 1966, something that might be interesting, the Ramparts affair, like the medical magazine, began untangling the nefarious acts of the CIA? Some people are saying that the CIA was subsidizing them and promoting them to do a partial limit of the hangout. The facts are so much worse that they want to make it seem that everything has come out and make people stop looking at the connections when you start putting things together, like even the conservative senators, Heinz and Tower, having that connection to 29:47 George Bush and information that was inconvenient. And then that ties into John Kerry and his investigation of that bunch of episodes and why he didn’t pursue it. And it shows inter-connectedness in government that, on the surface, it would seem really crazy to connect extreme right-wing senators to extreme left-wing organizations like the Christic Institute, but when you start weaving the strings together, you get a thousand parts that fit snugly together, and it starts looking somewhat crazy to say, no, they can’t fit together. That’s only a coincidence. You get thousands of coincidences snugly organized, and you have to look for a more reasonable explanation, and the official explanation starts sounding crazy. 30:49 What year was it when Bush and Kerry ran against each other and they’re both skull and bones members? Like, what a coincidence. Okay. I was interested in a big new Brzezinski, David Rockefeller, and the Trilateral Commission. Brzezinski was controlling Carter, basically. Rockefeller was controlling Brzezinski and Brzezinski Carter, and Brzezinski cooked up the thing of getting Saudi Arabia to start sending people into Afghanistan with U.S. weapons to, you know, the Soviets had set up a secular government in Afghanistan with education for women and an actual secular government. Like, every time a secular government is created in the Muslim world, it’s as bad as being neutral. Brzezinski was one example of that. The overthrow 31:55 of Mossadik in Turkey, that was their first big anti-secular case, but then the most fanatic anti-secularism came when the Soviets had set up a non-religious government with basically democratic practices as a way of keeping the U.S. from expanding, hopefully. You know, the Cuban missile crisis had the outcome of the U.S. agreeing to take their rockets out of Turkey, and the Soviets hoped to get another buffer state without rockets in Afghanistan, and to prevent that, Brzezinski got the fanatics armed with the best weapons to fight the Afghan democracy, and then the Soviets who supported it. And that went on until Carter was out of office, and eventually the fanatics won under extreme support from the U.S. 32:59 I think it’s floating around the internet, but there are articles showing what Afghanistan looked like in the 1970s. And to me, I have a poor history background, but it’s like unbelievable, and it just looks like a 1970s modern people walking around, and then they do like comparative shots to today, and it’s just like rubble. And also, good. And the religious extremism was all created by Brzezinski. Yeah. And there’s a video of Brzezinski arming the Muhajideen, and just saying some of the craziest stuff. It’s your land over there, like go fight, and it’s just very manipulative and weird, and it’s bizarre. And they brought the same sort of people into Serbia and took over Kosovo. Unbelievable. Okay, so it’s interesting to me that Brzezinski was so tied to Obama. He was in Obama’s inner circle. Obama talked very highly of him. People that I follow were saying like the hope and change candidate was 34:04 preposterous given who was in Obama’s inner circle, but I guess that message didn’t really get out to that many people. Yeah, it’s the same sort of thing as Hillary Clinton praising Henry Kissinger. It really revealed who she really is. And you’ve heard about her newest book in which she explains George Orwell’s real meaning of 1984. I didn’t catch that part, no. She says it means we should trust our leaders, experts, and the press more. That reminds me of Mayor Giuliani when he says real freedom is about obeying authority or something similar to that. Yeah, exactly. The meaning of 1984. Unbelievable. So maybe this is a good time to start with the beginning question. What’s your, like having been through so much, do you see your sense of how things are? 35:07 Is this like incomprehensible or like what’s happening right now? Or is it a logical continuation of things you’ve been seeing in the works for many years now, is I guess my question. The only pleasant thing about it is that so many other people are starting to see the loose ends where before, if you had, for example, an economic theory of white wars were fought, you were either ignorant or crazy or criminal or subversive, but the atmosphere has really changed so that there are lots of people questioning things now that unlike 50 or 60 years ago. One thing I did think was interesting to your point was I feel like if you talked about the deep state, you would be labeled as a crazy person. And the fact that it is being talked about openly on just regular news is pretty weird, no? People always prefer surfaces, but now the surface is being slightly redefined. 36:10 But, you know, before you could see the surface that the state said it was, wasn’t true that the state was really rotten all the way down. And now they analyze it and say, here’s the surface and there’s the deep state, but it’s always been just one rotten state and now people are starting to break it down into its parts and seeing the illusion how it’s maintained, how consent is manufactured. Like some of the things you said taken maybe out of context could be probably fuel for a libertarian anti-government view, but do you see just the creation of this EIA becoming a total nightmare as being just the real issue and not necessarily the government per se? And no, like when the people first started separating the CIA from the government was when Eisenhower had scheduled peace talks with Khrushchev in Europe and everyone was expecting 37:11 big things of that. And then with Lee Harvey Oswald, a U-2 expert in place in Russia, Dulles sent a U-2 plane over Russia and knowing that they had the expert who knew exactly the recipe for shooting it down, overcoming their radar defenses. And during the few days before the peace talk to send this U-2 pipeline over to be shot down knew that it would sabotage the talks. Eisenhower knew who Dulles was and still let it shoot down the peace talks. And Eisenhower was stupid, but he was also the one who kept Dulles in place and knew how things worked. So you could say that there were different factions working, but they weren’t really separate. They were just slightly inconvenient to each other. 38:12 We glossed over that a little bit, but I did watch a video by a woman named Lisa Pease, who seemed pretty intelligent. And she was, echoed what you just said, saying that Oswald was incredibly good at radar and locating those U-2. That was the plan? Yeah, that was what he was trained for as well as speaking Russian in Japan. But she was spinning the narrative that it was like the official story of the JFK assassination just is completely illogical and doesn’t make any sense and give in all of Oswald’s alleged CIA ties? Oh, yeah. The information that has come out, it’s a complete fine-grained picture of what was going on in the assassination and all of the context fits in. Who was murdered, what the official story, how it was composed, what the function of the Warren commission was. 39:14 There’s not really any mystery anymore. In David Talbot’s book, The Devil’s Chest Board is a pretty good summation of that. I haven’t read that. Oh, Michael, I thought you had. What is your general thought on Trump? Do you see him as part of this oligarchical cabal? Or do you see him as a free agent? Or what are your general thoughts on him? Yeah, I think he’s a free agent with some good instincts, but also an instinct of preservation, self-interest. His thing about not wanting nuclear war, I think, is his basic good impulse, but what can you do just being president? Some people were, when the election was happening, they, when he was meeting with Kissinger, were just like, oh, this guy is no good, basically, because he was aligning himself with those people. Did you think of anything of that? And no, I think he’s insincere about most of what he does. But his two or three 40:19 decent policies, he seemed over the years to come up with some insights, like about 20 years ago, when he suggested having a one-time wealth tax. He said it would cost him, I forget what, $200 million or something, but he said it would pay off the national debt, and then we’d be almost tax-free from then on. Interesting. Has he talked about that recently, or is that just an older thing in one of his books? No, I haven’t heard any recent discussion of that. Okay, Ray, I think I’ve exhausted my notes. The one thing I didn’t want to talk about was that I thought was really interesting was Truman saying that the whole creation of the CIA was a mistake to his autobiographist, that’s a word, Mary Miller in 1973. Mm-hmm. Recognizing any of its evil, how could he say otherwise? Yeah, really. Well, he went on and he said what I can tell, I don’t have the quote in front of me, 41:25 but he’s saying that the CIA makes their own wars, which we’ve been basically talking about for an hour. And also, I think he said, has a quote saying that they killed Dag Hammerscholt? He says, yeah, Dag Hammerscholt was the point of getting something done when they killed him. Notice that I said when they killed him, Truman said that, which is nuts. The testimony, a witness to the cabinet meeting where Eisenhower told them to do it, didn’t come out for 50 years after that, but everyone knew it at the time. I suppose Truman had much better information than the public. And just because I’m looking at it right now, do you have any thoughts on Lyman, the nutty actions of Lyman Levman, sir, who wrote Operation Northwoods? And I think he was the architect of Operation Gladio. What about him? I mean, reading through Operation Northwoods is like sobering on how crazy things can get. 42:26 Yeah, but I think that’s partly the fault of people who keep records, usually the most disgusting things they do in conversation and don’t do stupid things like keeping records. Do you think that was a mistake that they let out? I think that was like declassified under Clinton or somebody? Yeah, but even the act of keeping records, I’m sure they don’t do it with the really vile stuff. When I was reading through all this stuff, I was like, this is like 1%!o(MISSING)f what’s happening. And I couldn’t fathom what else was going on, basically. Yeah, and in that situation, people are free to imagine and their imagination can seldom, you know, catch up to what’s really happening right now. To end on a positive note, I mean, obviously, you embody a type of resistance to what’s happening 43:27 by giving people good information and trying to let people navigate their own lives. Do you see, are things so bad that you don’t see them getting better for a long time? Or do you see some hope? Or I mean, you were mentioning that people were kind of waking up individually? Yeah, and if you just get a lot of people with some very simple insights, like abuse of power is going to be the rule, so there should never be power exercised in private or in secret, just insist on complete openness. And people will just sort of automatically start moving in the right direction, which they won’t necessarily know until they get a lot of that openness into the culture, so that people can see where they are, then they can start talking about where they want to go with the control systems through the media 44:31 and the schools and the legal system. Everything is going to have to happen outside of all of those channels, and it would have to consist just in some basic insights and suspicions of power. To your point, James Angleton, CIA counterintelligence head, said in his testimony to the church committee, is inconceivable that a secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with all the overt orders of the government. That’s it for me, Ray. Did you have anything else we glossed over or you thought that was important? Oh, probably. Nothing occurs to me. Ray, what are you working on right now? Oh, I’m an article on milk, putting milk in cultural context. Milk as a sort of a focus of doing what we’re doing here, looking at the default assumptions and thinking about how to start rethinking things from a new point. 45:32 Awesome. I cannot wait to read it. Ray, you’ve been so generous with your time. I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’ll talk to you soon. I want to talk to you. Thank you. Bye, Ray. That’s going to conclude this week’s episode. I’d like to thank Ray again for talking with me today along with my patrons for their support of the show and all of the content I produce, none of which would be possible without my patrons. So from the bottom of my heart, I sincerely appreciate it. This episode was really fun for me. Sometimes I say I know enough about nutrition to know that I don’t know anything and I can’t even say that about politics. So it was definitely a learning experience talking with Ray, who is obviously a wealth of information. Again, it was awesome talking with him and I’d like to thank him again for just giving me an hour of his time and writing a great set of newsletters. This episode, if you don’t know, 46:36 was based on his newsletter. So you can get his newsletter now by sending, I think, $28 to RayPete’s newsletter at gmail.com. I think it’s $28 for six issues each year, so 12 total over two years. So yeah, it’s the best deal on the internet and you should definitely do that. If you liked this episode and you’re listening on YouTube, definitely hit that like button or leave a comment and I’ll try to reply to all of them. Thank you guys so much. This was a really fun episode and I’m glad I got to do it. I know it’s been a little, the content hasn’t been as flowing as it usually is. A lot of people know I’m writing a book right now, but again, I sincerely appreciate you guys listening. It’s always fun to do these things and I’ll talk to you guys very soon. Take care. 47:41 you

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