Ray Peat Rodeo
A picture of Marcus Whybrow, creator of Ray Peat Rodeo From Marcus This is an audio interview to do with Ray Peat from 2014.
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00:00 And support for Redwood Community Radio comes from listeners like you and from Blue Star Gas located at 1333 Redwood Drive at Alder Point Road. Blue Star Gas provides propane and gas appliances throughout Southern Humboldt, Northern Medicino and Trinity Counties, locally owned and independent since 1938. And came on thanks Jessica Baker of Jade Dragon Acupuncture for her support of Redwood Community Radio. Practicing and teaching Chinese medicine, herbalism and aromatherapy, Jessica is available for press conferences, workshops and private consultations. Located at 607 F Street, Arcada, Jade Dragon Acupuncture can be reached at 822-4300 and online at JadeDragonAcupuncture.com. And now live from our studios in Redway, California. Studio B to be exact. The next voice to you here will be the herb doctor. 02:18 Welcome to this month’s Ask Your Herb Doctor, my name’s Andrew Murray. For those of you who perhaps have never listened to the shows which run every third Friday of the month from 7-8pm, we’re both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. We run a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and recommend herbal medicines and dietary advice. So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMU-D Garberville, 91.1 FM. And from 7.30 till the end of the show at 8 o’clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s subject of vaccination. The number here if you live in the area is 923-3911 or if you live outside the area, the toll free number is 1-800-568-3723. 03:21 That’s 1-800-KM-UD-RAD. Incidentally, we can also be reached toll free on 1-888-WBM-ERB for consultations or further information at the end of the show. So here we are, 20th of June, almost a solstice. It seems to happen fairly regularly that we get our shows on the solstices and equinoxes. This month’s subject has come around fairly fortuitously in terms of the recent press on the Hooping Cough outbreak. I don’t know if we call it an epidemic, but the Hooping Cough outbreaks that have been occurring in California and in different states across the US in clusters. So I wanted to do the show on vaccinations. I know there’s many different opinions out there about vaccinations, how useful they are, how harmful they could potentially be. I know the autism and the MMR vaccination debate is still raging on. 04:26 So this evening, as in all of our shows for the past few years now, we’re pleased to have Dr. Raymond Peat with us. I think while the studio is getting him on the line, I just want to outline for people who maybe have never heard Dr. Raymond Peat speaking on different health topics, of which you’ll give his opinion tonight on vaccination from his broad scientific background, that things are not always as they seem. So even though diseases have raged through humanity since the beginning of time, there are various different things that have happened to the world that we live in that have certainly made it a harder place to live in, if you like, in terms of the exposure to various toxins, for one of the better words, that we are definitely exposed to now. Both the estrogens in the environment, the radiation, the cosmic radiation and the normal background radiation of our everyday life. 05:30 And a diet and lifestyle that most people are currently engaged in have certainly degraded, I would say, for one of the better words, the energy with which human beings have to fight infection. So given that as an organism, we have an innate store of energy with which we come to the world with, and slowly but surely over time, from infancy to adulthood and old age, the processes that occur during our lives with food and our subjection and exposure to various things certainly interfere with our bodily systems. And the immune system is a very complex and finely tuned weapon, if you like, against infection. Infection has, as I’ve said, always been present in the world. So from the very early times until now, it’s nothing new that we coexist with a wide range of organisms, some of which are pathogenic. 06:32 And when we come in to contact them with them, they certainly cause disease in the body. So some diseases are worse than others, obviously, and some that have had wide media attention, things that we’ll look at this evening, like polio. I’m always struck by that vision. I’m 48 now, and so I remember kind of growing up as a six or seven-year-old and seeing pictures of polio victims that had happened, you know, 15 years previously, 20 years previously, still very much in the forefront of the media then, and the children that were wearing braces and calipers because they were paralyzed. And there were a few people that were in the media that had suffered polio, and they obviously were, you know, seen on TV and portrayed, and it was certainly talked about. So diseases that have severe outcome, like polio, I think certainly struck the population at large as something to try and do something about. And I think modern science, when it started getting upspeed with pharmaceuticals and various different approaches to disease, some of which were not exactly scientific, as we’ll see, 07:44 certainly took full steam ahead, and polio vaccination and that, you know, going worldwide to eradicate polio like smallpox became big campaigns of government and industry alike. And so pharmaceutical industries that were concerned with producing the vaccines that would be distributed to people worldwide certainly had incentive from government to do such a thing. And as we’ll also find out, it’s strange enough, perhaps if you think about the concept that a government sanctioned process can be outside of the law. I find this quite a strange concept in medicine, the Hippocratic oath that doctors take. The first thing is first do no harm. So that’s the basic tenet of medicine, first do no harm. So as we talk about this this evening with Dr. Pete, let’s understand two concepts. One is first do no harm. 08:48 And the second is the science and the research that should guide our decision in medicine should be very objective, subjective and open to evaluation. And when a product like a vaccine has been indemnified by a government so that it cannot be prosecuted because when people get damaged by vaccines and this definitely happened, the company that manufactured the vaccine can’t be taken to court. I find that very, very, very strange that that law would be put into effect to protect vaccine manufacturers because inherently they know that these things are unsafe. So the United States legal standard applied to vaccines defines them as unavoidably unsafe products that are quite incapable of being made safe for their intended and ordinary use. So the reason why vaccines are unsafe or in other words harmful is because they’re made up of chemicals and other elements that are poisonous to the body. And the vaccine industry as naturally as I said have been indemnified by governments meaning there can be no liability directed at pharmaceutical industries producing vaccines for vaccination damaged individuals. 10:01 So first do no harm and the fact that vaccine companies are actually protected by law. It’s a very strange concept that’s allowed. And as we’ll also see, I was looking at an interview with a doctor who was basically looking at polio as a subject of one of the vaccination questions that were arising and saying that polio in itself is 95 to 98 percent. The one of the better words is asymptomatic. So the fact that 98 percent or up to 98 percent of a population can contract polio, they won’t actually have any outlying symptoms of any disease as such. It’s only the one percent that actually can get sequelae of the polio virus and out of those one percent only a few of those people actually get the paralysis that’s associated with polio and which has been so widely portrayed on the news. 11:03 So like I said, those two things definitely want to be kept on your minds. And as you listen to Dr. Pete and his explanations, a lot of what he says is very mind-opening because it’s not something that we’re normally exposed to because the media and corporations have definite agenda when things are being produced and sold. And so what we definitely get by the TV and the radio to the most part is a fairly one-sided story. So Dr. Pete, often when you hear him speaking, he seems very controversial as a fairly pretty good word for him, pretty controversial. But a lot of what he said is very scientific. So that’s like I said, what should be driving medicine and research. And when he comes out with these statements that sometimes might seem outrageous if you’ve not heard it before, it’s actually the product of investigative work and scientific review. That doesn’t always come to the fore. 12:06 So when we get to getting Dr. Pete to explain his basis for immunity and infection and how as human beings, I think we’ve been exposed to various things that have degraded our ability to fight infection. That it’ll become a little bit more obvious, especially when you remember the first two things I said, first do no harm and that vaccine corporations are indemnified by the government and they cannot be held liable. So just think on those things and then we’ll talk to Dr. Pete and ask him to explain those basic fundamentals of disease and how things have definitely changed in our environment for the worse. And now we’re suddenly barraged with vaccinations from birth at an alarmingly increasing rate. Okay, so I don’t know if we have Dr. Pete on the line. Yeah, okay. Now, hi, Dr. Pete. You there. Hi. Hi. Thanks for joining. The town’s just a little weak. I’m sorry. 13:07 You can hear me okay? Oh yeah, I can hear you fine. Can you hear me? Okay, good. Can you hear me all right? Yeah, now. Good. Okay. I’ve actually given people the outline of what we’re going to talk about tonight, but as always, I think it’s a good idea to give people the opportunity of hear your scientific background, your professional background, and then we’ll get into the show. Okay. Although I concentrated on physiology, reproductive aging, and biochemistry during my four years at the University of Oregon. It happened that in a seminar of developmental biology that I took, I think it was in the fall of 1969, the professor was sponsoring an international conference on immunology. And so I got to hear the latest big shots research in explaining the clonal selection theory of adaptive immunity, and they would give their presentation and then disappear. 14:15 And in between, younger professors would give their current research. And the most memorable thing about the conference for me was a professor describing his in vitro experiments with white blood cells that had been clonally deleted. But when the concentration was proper, they could reconstitute themselves in the original as if they each one had knowledge of what the whole organism was. And that really was a contradictory to all of the mechanistic assumptions of the current clonal selection theory. But it happens that it corresponds very closely to what 30 years later is being seen as a feature of the epigenetic expression of genetic information throughout the body in which, for example, skin cells from different parts of the body 15:35 are different from skin cells in a different part of the body. Each cell knows where it belongs in terms of the whole organism as if each part is sort of a microcosm. And that researcher in 1969 showed evidence that the immune system works that way, that each cell is kind of a microcosm. And as the clonal selection theory was developing, it really was trying to justify the vaccination practice and theory. The practice of vaccination was entirely empirical. People didn’t know anything about what was going on. They didn’t even know there were cells. They were practicing vaccination. 16:37 So that was just a trial and error thing, no theory at all. Early in this century, Paul Ehrlich developed the approach to immunity that led to the clonal selection theory, which is currently pretty much the dominant theory, except it has been modified recently, four or five years, by recognition that the innate immune system, what we share with primitive animals and plants, that the innate immune system really is involved in the adaptive immune system. But from Paul Ehrlich’s view and mainline immunology, the adaptive system was the only part that was of interest. 17:39 And in 1969, I talked to some of my professors about the innate immunity, which in the year that Paul Ehrlich got his Nobel Prize, Ehrlich Metchnikov also shared the Nobel Prize, but Metchnikov presented information about the innate immune system, and that was really pretty much ignored until just the last four or five years. But that’s where I think the really interesting stuff happens. And in 1969, when I talked to my professors, they were completely uninterested in the innate immune system, but I had been reading William F. Koch, who was early in the century, almost simultaneously with Ehrlich Metchnikov’s work. 18:47 Koch developed evidence that oxidative cell metabolism is responsible for innate resistance and immunity, and it was in effect the biochemical explanation for the innate immunity that Ehrlich Metchnikov had showed as a developmental process. And Metchnikov was an embryologist, and he saw immunity as a process of maintaining the integrity of the organism, but in the developmental, almost embryological manner. And Koch’s work at the same time was showing that it was the energy of cells, the oxidative metabolism that made this innate immunity work. And people ignored or disparaged W.F. Koch because an essential part of his theory of oxidative metabolism was based on pre-radical reactions that would break down allergens and viruses and toxins using free radical chemistry. 20:16 But biologists didn’t know that there was such a thing as free radical chemistry until 1950s. So pretty much Albert St. Georgie was the only biologist who took W.F. Koch seriously, and he didn’t really concentrate on immunity. So it’s now just barely coming into scientific awareness that the innate immune system and metabolic processes do have something to do with why some people don’t get disease and others do. Right. I mean, because even currently, we’ll jump ahead a little with this before we go back to the kind of progression from antiquity to now with our health. But even now there are populations of people that don’t come down with a disease when there’s a raging epidemic going on. 21:19 I mean, we’re talking about unvaccinated people, people that don’t have any supposed protection, have their own innate defense. People writing about the economics of immunity often refer to vaccination as the economically viable method that they acknowledge that sanitation and nutrition prevent disease, but they say it’s cheaper to vaccinate. And the World Health Organization around 1970, I think, did an experiment in Central America in which they gave a medical team with vaccination and all of the regular medicine help to one village, another village they didn’t do anything to. The third village, they didn’t provide any vaccination or medical help, but they provided clean water and a nutrition supplement to pregnant women and young children. 22:35 And doing that for several years, they came back and the health was best in the nutrition and clean water village, better than the control village. The health in the medicalized and vaccinated village was worse. So scientifically, that pretty much says that even though it might not be economically viable to clean up the environment, it definitely is better than vaccination as a way to improve the health. Especially with all the attendant risks. I started the beginning of the show as you were being brought in, that the thing I find staggering about the ethics, if you like, of the industry that produces vaccinations is that they’re completely outside of the law so far as litigation for any damage is caused. They find that incredible. 24:01 There’s some baldness, sterility and ovarian failure, psoriasis, autoimmune skin diseases, and those are things that show up pretty visibly and easily diagnosed. But long range studies suggest that there will be a similar significant increase among vaccinated people of the really serious degenerative diseases that contain an autoimmune factor such as dementia, cancer and heart disease. But even the mild problems aren’t mentioned when people are talking about the safety of vaccines. So how do you think, I guess before we get into the so-called science behind vaccination, the methodology behind it, what they seek to obtain and actually how the immune system now as an ever-evolving organism is actually considered in the light of current and groundbreaking scientific research. 25:13 How do you think we as a species, I wonder, going back to perhaps Egyptian times, we know the Egyptians definitely got things like leprosy, that they got enteric diseases, they had cardiovascular disease, and they got some evidence there that a few cases they may have found, a few cases even of a one or two cancers that they might have found out of hundreds of mummies put through CAT scans and various other investigative procedures. They found no evidence of breast cancer, which I found quite interesting amongst any of the females, and in terms of a society, I wonder if you have any thoughts about the type of strength of their immunity and how that’s changed throughout the Middle Ages until now. Well, current experiments show that simply diet and sanitation, good light exposure, and avoidance of pollution and toxins will make a tremendous difference. 26:32 And I assume that in a pre-industrial society, there was a lot less heavy metal exposure. I don’t think Egypt was big on iron industry and refining and such. I think the seed oils have, I think, been a major contribution to bad health, along with heavy metals, and those two things interact destroying our innate immune system. Types of experiments that prevent animals from getting the usual polyunsaturated fats show that they’re extremely resistant to all kinds of injury, including infections. And one of the most interesting things relative to the classical instruction theory of adaptive immunity is that organs, for example, kidneys, can be transplanted from an animal that has been deprived of polyunsaturated fats into another animal, as if they were genetically related. 27:58 The antigenicity of the tissues is extremely low simply by avoiding the polyunsaturated fats and these similar things in liver transplants among humans. So you mean the animals, sorry for interrupting, but the animals that were transplanted, the organs that were transplanted from the animal with no poofa in its diet, had a lot less antigenic reaction in the body of the recipient? Yeah, so even though their genes and proteins are theoretically antigenic, they should be antigenic, but because of being free of the associated free radical breakdown products of the oxidized fats, those proteins aren’t recognized as foreign. Wow, so when we hear about tissue typing and donor matching and finding that match for that kidney, or you’re saying that actually in animal experiments they’ve taken those organs out of animals who have a fairly disparate genetic makeup and the organ is still not rejected? 29:14 True, and if you look at the age and gender of liver donors, females have a higher level of circulating polyunsaturated fats in the blood than tissues and those increase with age. And the least successful, the most antigenic and likely to fail liver comes from older donors and female donors corresponding to the exposure, accumulation of polyunsaturated fats. Interesting, I wasn’t expecting that. Okay, so what do you think about in terms of the, I’ll tell you what, let’s put it out in the air, what’s going on here, and I think actually there might even be a caller. So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor, KME DeGarville, 91.1 FM. We’re very pleased to have Dr Raymond Peep with us this evening. And we’re going through the subject of vaccination and at some point here we’ll get into the bad press about vaccination and some of the people that are claiming damages and the link between autism and MMR and then not to mention all the adjuvants that are put into vaccines to make them supposedly reactive in the body so the body does something about it. 30:34 It’s not about mounting an immune response because the material in the vaccine itself isn’t antigenic enough. But if people would like to call anytime from now until 8 o’clock the number, like I said, it’s 923-3911 if you’re in the area. If you’re outside the area the number is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. So Dr Peep, let’s take this first caller and see where we’re going. You’re on the air? Hello? Hi, caller, you’re on the air? Where are you from? What are you calling from? Kansas City. Kansas City, hi. Yes, I had a couple of questions. One of them was about gluten. So you had mentioned that estrogen sensitizes the intestines to gluten. So if someone were staying off of gluten, how long should they kind of stay off of it before trying it out again? Or is it like so many of the so-called gluten experts who say that you basically have to stay off of it forever? Dr Peep? I think the hormone balance is what makes the difference. 31:39 If you get your defensive anti-inflammatory hormones, including thyroid, up as the anti-inflammatory T3 part of the thyroid increases, the TSH, which is pro-inflammatory, decreases. And high estrogen goes with low thyroid function and an inflammatory state which resembles autoimmunity. Animals treated with estrogen are very susceptible to autoimmune diseases. And so I think the gluten reaction is, in effect, a type of autoimmune reaction. And you have to shift the whole organism so that it’s acting properly rather than overreacting to inflammatory signals. 32:44 Okay, so that means that if you’re able to do that, that eventually you could actually just eat gluten without a problem in the future then? Yeah, I think so. I’ve talked previously about the intestine as a source of serotonin and nitric oxide and histamine which promote inflammation. And those things are increased by any stressor, but they’re intrinsic parts of the immune system and they tend to change with aging as well as stress. Very recently there’s been research showing that nitric oxide turns off all of the steroids starting with pregnenolone in the white blood cells, which should turn off autoimmune reactions. And since nitric oxide turns off steroid synthesis right at the first step, you want to do things that will minimize your exposure to serotonin, histamine, and nitric oxide, 33:58 and increase things that will promote the anti-inflammatory, anti-autoimmune processes. Okay, that’s great. Thank you. I just had one other question. If you could maybe give a couple of practical things someone could do who’s suffering from age-related macular degeneration? Yeah, thyroid, sometimes aspirin helps by keeping down the prostaglandins and polyunsaturated reactive oxygen species. So vitamin E, thyroid, aspirin, pregnenolone, and progesterone are all protective. So basically just everything that works in the way of restoring energy production, then we could basically say that you should be able to regenerate the cell in the eye, I guess. Is that right? 35:04 Yeah, I think so. The cells are tending to regenerate constantly in the brain, retina, pancreas, and so on. Even in sick people, there are new stem cells being born. The problem is to keep them from dying because of the stressful situation in the tissue. Or caffeine is another generally protective thing that blocks the toxic effects of nitric oxide and other things that kill cells and deprive them of energy. Okay, thank you for that. That was great. Okay, thank you for your call. We have another caller on the line, so we’ll take this next caller. Where are you from, caller? How are you on the air? Where are you from? You were on the air. Engineer, did we have the caller already? Is he gone? 36:09 He must have hung up. Hello? Oh, hi. You’re on the air? I’m on the air, yes. You asked me where I was from? Yeah. I’m from here in Humboldt, near Phillipsville. Okay, Phillipsville. Go ahead. What I wanted to ask is, in relation to the vaccination thing, what I don’t hear you addressing is that so many of the diseases that children get vaccinated for traditionally have been pretty much wiped out, and they were very deadly diseases. A lot of children died of whooping cough, tetanus with a death sentence. Usually, diphtheria was my father almost died of diphtheria as a child, and he was one of the few that made it. His first cousin died of polio because it affected her breathing. I have another friend who went through her whole life with one leg shorter than the other because she’d had polio, and that was quite distressful for her. 37:10 But so many smallpox, so many deadly diseases you don’t hear about anymore because children were massively vaccinated. So whatever harm vaccinations might cause are not anywhere nearly as harmful as the diseases that they’ve wiped out. I think that can be contested, and I think that was the point of this evening’s show, was to bring out some of the scientific evidence behind that contest. Were people dying a lot from those diseases? Well, people die a lot from the kind of diseases that are ravaging the world right now, like the cancers, the massive increase in cancers. People are tragically mentally dying from dementia and Alzheimer’s right in front of their families. Autism is becoming pretty rife amongst children, and God just knows what it’s predisposing them to be like in the years to come. So I think whilst you’re very true and correct that these diseases have certainly brought around deadly consequences for some of the victims in the world. 38:16 A lot of them. Yeah, the purpose of tonight’s show was to bring out where we’ve come from and where we’re at now and why it is that there is this supposed need for this massive vaccination. Well, do you think that we should vaccinate children against these deadly diseases so they don’t get a hooping cough and tetanus? Well, the point of tonight’s show was to bring out the reasons for and against it, and that’s, I guess, where we’re going to go with the show. So perhaps if you wait a little while and we get further through the questions that I have for Dr. Pete, like I said at the very beginning of the show, his philosophy and approach to this is very different and does seem very shocking at first. Well, I just want to know, you know, what would you do without vaccinations? You know, what would you do about all these deadly diseases that we… As he’s already said, you know… I know we haven’t been able to conquer cancer. We’ve come a long way. It’s not the death sentence that it used to be for a lot of people. 39:17 Yeah, I think what Dr. Pete said that hit the nail on the head, really, is that good hygiene, sanitation and nutrition has done more than vaccination has done for reducing disease. And it’s the health of the organism that’s really the important factor. So whilst we’re not saying carte blanche that vaccinations are deadly and shouldn’t be used, what we’re trying to get over and hopefully will, as the show goes on, otherwise we’ll carry on next month, is that the nutrition state of people in the terms of how they live, the drugs that they maybe have, their own medications, the kind of quality of food that’s in the food supply these days, the water they’re drinking, the air they’re breathing, the sunlight they’re not getting, all of these things are degrading. Well, technically it’s obviously a stronger immune system is going to ward off, you know, is going to help you ward off all diseases. Exactly. It’s going to ward off your immune system. And so if we get that opportunity later on here, we’re going to discuss the immune system and how experiments have conclusively proved that in groups of animals that have been treated and tested, 40:23 they’re significantly better in their outcomes when faced with the same infection that other animals die from. So I think it’s basically not a one way or the other. What we want to do is just open people’s minds to things that they may not have thought about. I think that’s the whole point of our shows. They’re pretty groundbreaking in terms of getting people to think differently about a subject that’s so long and so often we get brainwashed with only one way. And actually, we don’t hear the full truth. And so that’s the whole point. Well, I’m also personally immune system and, you know, better eating and, you know, better understanding of all the things that go into that. So I’ll get off the phone and thank you. Thanks, Nicole. Okay, we do have one more caller. So let’s see what this call is going to go. Where are you from caller? Is that me? Yes, where are you from? Well, I’m here from Phillip’sville. You’re from Phillip’sville as well. Are you okay? Yes. So there’s, I’m a homeopath. Okay. And there’s a wonderful book by Richard Moskowitz called Plain Doctrine that has a few hundred pages on very medical vaccination 41:32 by vaccination assessment of each of each vaccination. And for one thing whooping cop is a terribly ineffective one, which is partially why everybody is getting it these days because they’ve been vaccinated and vaccinated. And all they do is they have some more vaccine and it doesn’t work very well. These those works very well. And some of them like whooping have some terrible consequences. And it seems to me it should be in a case by case basis. I mean, I would be interested in a tetanus shot, but I don’t want a pertussis. I’ve already had whooping cough and I certainly don’t want a diphtheria. There’s 22 cases in, I don’t know, the last 10 years in the U.S. So why are they doing that? Money. That’s why. Money. You know, a hippie and a newborn baby is crazy. Anyway, it’s a wonderful book. But, you know, I go both ways. My great grandfather died of what is it? Well, Pucks. What is the Pucks? Smallpox. Bob Pucks. 42:33 Second. And all his children had the vaccine and it was horrible and their legs could all red and sort of pussy. And he was repelled and he was a guy. He was a macho in Cuba and he didn’t want to get vaccinated. So when he came in contact with it, he got it and went off and died by himself. So there should be a little sanity, but there isn’t any sanity at all. Anyway, it’s a wonderful book. It’s called Plain Doctrine by Richard Moskowitz and it does it very scientifically, not hysterically at all. Good. But, you know, my great-granddaughter has had 40,000 and the granddaughter believes in herd immunity. And I’m horrified with so much cancer in the family. Terrible. Okay. Well, thanks for the show. You’re welcome. Bye-bye. Dr. Pete, I think, unless we get more callers coming in, let’s get into the adjuvant side of vaccinations and how these are definitely proven to be very toxic and unsafe. Okay. One of the newer adjuvants of interest is phytol, which is a plant oiling material. 43:42 And heavy metals have been used as adjuvants for a long time. And they are pathogens in themselves when they’re in the diet and environment. But since even the conventional immunologists realize that simple foreignness of a protein isn’t enough to make it reactive, isn’t enough to make it function as an antigen, even though it’s completely foreign. So they need to make the body treated as something dangerous. And that’s what activates the immune system and effectively keeps the viruses or bacteria from multiplying. But following the trend that Ellie Metschenhoff sketched out at the beginning of the century, a few people, 25 and 30 years ago, 44:56 brought that innate immunity back theoretically to look at the evidence of vaccination and how an adjuvant makes the immune system react. And it’s now recognized as the danger or damage theory of immunity, where it used to be the otherness, the foreignness of an adjuvant that was recognized. Now it’s increasingly seen that it’s injury that triggers the immune system. And so it’s not at all just the foreignness. And the originators of this danger or damage theory of immunity are Jamie Cunliffe and Polly Matzinger. And they showed that the implications of thinking of the immune system as a developmental process rather than as an immune process seeking out foreign organisms as a pathogen. 46:17 And that anything pathogenic, which could be radiation, heavy metals, toxic fats and so on, these are the real agents of damage. And that’s why they have to be used with the bacterium or virus. The thing I remember was the flimerosol that was, I think they say now that it’s been banned since 2002, but I don’t know how true that is. And that obviously was causing a lot of damage in people that were receiving it. And I think this is when a lot of the attention came out for vaccinations and the products that were used as adjuvants in vaccines were then starting to be questioned. Some people think that they’re talking about the amount of mercury as a toxin, but it’s really the way that the tiny amount of toxin or mercury or adjuvant is presented that causes the problem. 47:26 And that isn’t the mercury itself. For example, kids whose mother ate lots of seafood turn out to have above average IQs along with a high body load of mercury. So in a healthy body, even mercury isn’t necessarily toxic, but presented in the wrong way, activating these adaptive, defensive reactions. It’s that that can lead to things like autoimmunity that really cause the damage. So when they substitute phytol for aluminum or mercury, for example, I think the effects are going to be just as bad if not worse. So it’s all about the potentiation of it? Yes, the potentiation of the disturbing properties. 48:32 Okay, so I think there’s a caller coming in. So is there a caller? Yes, we had a dear listener who wanted to know if I could ask for Dr. Pete to comment on the effects of breastfeeding on the immune health of the child and as well as its relationship to breastfeeding in relation to vaccines. Besides being good nutrition and extremely low in iron, incidentally, iron is one of the factors in the environment that accumulates and progressively leads to oxidative injury of all of the tissues. So milk provides extremely good nutrition, including a relative absence of the harmful iron. It also provides various immune protective materials and the bodies and things such as transferrin or lactoferrin that help to manipulate the body load of iron. 49:53 Besides being deficient in iron as a food, the lactoferrin helps the body keep its iron in the right place, prevents stress from letting the iron react with polyunsaturated fats and so on. So breastfeeding provides undamaged proteins that are really part of the baby’s immune system and even RNA from the mother’s body, I think even DNA has been demonstrated to pass from the mother’s milk into the baby’s genetic makeup. So if you are brought up on cow’s milk or goat’s milk, you get many of the immunological protective factors, but you’re probably also incorporating some of the goat or cow’s genetic material. 50:59 And I don’t want to speculate on what the caller exactly was wondering about, but I think they were curious if the antibodies that are released in the breast milk, are they ever an alternative or a viable option to any specific vaccines that are out there already that people get vaccines for their child but they don’t have to because the breast milk provides the proper antibodies? Yeah, the mother’s immunity does show up in the baby if the baby is breastfed for a couple years. Part of that transfer is by micro vesicles, they’re called little particles about maybe less than a thousandth the size of a cell, but they contain proteins and RNA, possibly some DNA. And these micro vesicles can pass through the intestine wall and circulate as sort of immune cells, even though they’re extremely small, they can be taken up specifically by cells that they’re appropriate for. 52:17 So they’re kind of like miniature stem cell repair kits that the milk is providing. And would a longer duration of breastfeeding say beyond two years lead to more active immunities? Yeah, if they probably should supplement some iron because usually a baby is born with an overload of iron, the heavier the overload, I think the higher the risk of diseases in the newborn baby. But by the time a baby is about two years old, it has grown into that excess of iron. And around that time, it might be needing some food containing iron such as eggs, but the protective immunity is still being passed along up to three or four years. Thank you, Dr. Pete. 53:19 Okay, so I don’t know that we’re going to have, we certainly have some more time to go before the end of the show, but maybe we’ll carry on this next month because I’d really like to ask you, Dr. Pete, about your current understanding of the immune system and how they tell us vaccines are supposed to be working and the perceived risk and the odds of a lifelong, perhaps lifelong struggle with any number of conditions that may have been stimulated by the vaccine that we probably are going to find out in maybe another 30 or 40 years, a little bit like the polyunsaturated fat cover-up perhaps that’s just coming to light now with doctors saying that saturated fats are actually better and more protective. But I don’t know that we’ll have in six minutes any chance to cover that, but perhaps if we just put it out in the air that a number, if you want to make a quick call, here’s 923-3911 off the outside of the area, the 800 number is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. 54:20 Okay, I think part of the picture that people should keep in mind is that in just the last 20 years, the image of the organism has become more like a continuing stream of developmental changes, like we’re the last stage of embryonic development. We’re still just a big, slowly developing embryo, really, with all of our parts being in play, interacting with the environment, and what happens during gestation and in the first two or three years of life when there are fewer cells involved. Each of those cells has a longer history of descendants, and the more you disturb the organism early in life, the greater the distortion is going to be in adulthood. 55:26 But we’re still in process, even after middle age. Stem cells are still being educated and responding, trying to optimize conditions, so it’s never too late to correct damage that was done at an early stage. But when possible, the early environment should be optimized by avoiding stresses as far as they can be avoided. Do you think there’s any point at which an organism might be fully protected in terms of the insults given to it by vaccines or any other outside influences? Do you think there’s a point beyond which the capacity will have reached a maximal point? There are two types of experiments in mice and rats that I think say a lot about human conditions. 56:33 Germ-free animals, even though they’re susceptible to infection because they’ve never been exposed to infections, they happen to be very tough and adaptive resistant to other kinds of stress. In middle age, their mortality rate is much lower than germ-infested animals. For example, they’re very resistant to obesity. They can be fed a high-fat and high-sugar diet, and they just don’t get fat, even though they come from a strain of obese animals. The absence of germs and inflammation makes them resistant to such things as obesity and diabetes, and the other line of experimentation is giving them a diet completely lacking in the so-called essential fatty acids. Those animals are extremely resistant not only to trauma and chemical poisoning, biological toxins and so on. They have an extremely strong immune system. They are hard to infect. 57:51 In fact, it takes a huge dose of injected cancer cells or bacteria, for example, to produce a viable infection. I’ll have to hold you there, Dr. Peat, because I want to make sure people get the information about how to reach you on the web and read some of the articles behind what they’ve heard this evening. We didn’t really get a chance to get into the crux of vaccines and the foreign against and take the advice and ask yourself the questions with the new information, but perhaps we’ll get the chance to carry this on next month. Anyway, for those people who’ve heard the show and want to know more about Dr. Raymond Peat and his definite wisdom and his learned experience, www.raypeat.com, his website is full of articles that are fully referenced, almost a scientific-based literature in his arguments for and against a wide range of things. 59:04 So well worth looking at his website. He doesn’t sell anything, but he has a lot of good information to give away for free. Anyway, yeah, for those people who’ve listened to the show and for those who’ve called in, thank you for your time and calling in. We can be reached 1-888-WBM-URB Monday through Friday and tomorrow is the solstice, so it’s the longest day of the year. Things start getting a little dimmer as we work through to fall, but hey, I saw the rivers on the way and it looks like the end of August. Anyway, so all the best and see you on the third Friday of next month. Alright, thank you Doc. And thank everyone for their calls. The herb doctor got quite a few calls of support during that show, and I think a lot of the listeners are on board with another episode about Maxime.

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