From Marcus This is a video interview to do with Ray Peat from 2020. It's part of my effort to archive and augment Ray's complete works within this website, Ray Peat Rodeo. You can donate to the project on GitHub sponsors, cheers🥰.
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02:45 OK, OK, and we’re live. Georgi Dinkov, Ray Pete, Georgi, I won’t interrupt. Go ahead and ask your question. Yes, there was a, I saw a study, it was published in 2004. It was a bodybuilder in Portugal. And he went to the hospital for some reason. And the doctors there tested, given some blood tests. And they, you know, he admitted to taking steroids. But when he showed the doctors the vials that he’d been using, the amount of steroid in the vials 03:11 was really small. Yet he was having these, surprisingly, he had huge muscles. And they tested for other chemicals. And he denied taking anything else. So they said, well, is that the only thing you’ve been taking? And he said, yeah, I’ve been only taking that steroid. And every time I take the steroid, I’m also taking 200 milligrams of caffeine. So they said, hmm, maybe the caffeine is somehow promoting the effects of the steroid. And then they tested in vitro the dihydrotestosterone with caffeine. And caffeine increased the transcription effects through the androgen receptor by 300% to 400%. So they concluded that caffeine somehow increases the effects of the anabolic steroids, at least of androgens like dihydrotestosterone. So I thought the same thing may be happening with thyroid. Yeah, one of the good things that the favorable steroids do, progesterone, the androgens, in particular, 04:12 is to stabilize the cell in such a way that it can expel calcium and sodium, get rid of the short circuit of the energy process, suppress glycolysis, and move into the oxidizing state. And caffeine works probably analogously to the steroids and carbon dioxide, a structural electron of attracting effect that they all have in common. Have you seen some of the older studies from the 50s and 60s showing that they administered some kind of a vitamin D analog that was really good at calcifying soft tissue? I think it’s called dihydrotachysterone. And then they showed that androgens can actually 05:14 decalcify the cell, like testosterone, progesterone, can get the calcium outside of the cell. Yeah, caffeine does the same thing. I think that’s the basis for caffeine’s protective effect on the liver, against fatty liver and fibrosis of the liver, and carcinogenesis. All kinds of cancer-causing processes are blocked by caffeine, whether it’s radiation or chemical carcinogens or even viral processes. All of those are pro-inflammatory, pro-glycolytic, reductive processes. Caffeine is like progesterone, supporting the oxidizing structures. Do you think caffeine has some effect similar to sodium, 06:14 like it’s perceived by the cell as a mild irritant, so the cell ramps up its metabolism in response to being exposed to caffeine? Yeah, that would account for the stimulating effect. But at the same time, it has the calming, in a bigger sense, stopping the dangerous types of excitation while letting the cell respond to adrenaline. Do you think there’s a certain amount of caffeine daily that’s optimal, in other words? Because I saw some studies saying that anything more than three cups of coffee a day, they only looked at liver disease. And I think osteoporosis, but they said anything more than three cups didn’t really increase the benefit. These were all epidemiological studies. So I’m wondering if there is an optimal amount. Most of the best studies that I’ve seen found five cups a day. The benefit was still increasing. 07:15 And the population, they said five or more cups per day, for example, had the least liver disease and the least dementia and, in some studies, the least cancer. So I think it depends on your need. And some people might go up to maybe 50 cups a day. When I was hypothyroid, I felt best when I would have 30 to 50 cups just constantly drinking fairly strong coffee with cream. Well, so you were drinking more coffee than milk at that time? Oh, no, I drank a lot of milk, too, but generally not together. And interestingly, I didn’t form a tremendous amount of urine because I evaporated so much. 08:18 At that time, I would steam up even a fairly big room full of windows and cool weather. What would be a good sign that the person is getting their metabolism too high and getting a bit dehydrated? Because I know that if you drink very sugary drinks and you evaporate a lot of water, it can increase the blood similarity. But what would be a good, I don’t know, maybe urine color or viscosity, I guess? Is there anything else that can be used to test? Oh, yeah, if you’re in starts getting very dark and sick, you should take more fluid. Oh, good. It doesn’t hurt to pour excess water through. Sometimes in hot weather, when I would drink gallons and gallons, I might make maybe two quarts of urine. Depending on the heat and activity, 09:19 sometimes I could evaporate two or three gallons out of my lungs and skin. But in cold weather, it’s probably a little bit better to be on the high osmolarity side, right? Yeah, yeah, probably. OK. OK, kind of the theme of this show, it goes along with what we were just talking about. But last time, we talked about kind of turning food into electrons, passing them through the cell, making carbon dioxide ATP water. And so I thought this week, we could talk about carbon dioxide, right? And the calcium, potassium, magnesium, sodium regulation, because I know that’s a central theme in a lot of your work. And so I think we had this conversation probably like two years ago, but I was just too stupid to have it with you. So we have Georgie here, and so he could fill in the gaps. But yeah, maybe starting from wherever you see as the most pertinent, but the regulation of those ions and then what happens when too much of the calcium 10:21 and sodium go inside the cell and when too much of the potassium and magnesium is lost? Or wherever you think is good to start? You can start almost anywhere and end up the same place. Things that support oxidation like thyroid hormone are acting largely through forming carbon dioxide. And the carbon dioxide, one of its major functions, is in proportion to its increase. It suppresses the formation of lactic acid as the alternative low energy form of metabolism. And the low energy goes with letting large amounts of calcium and sodium accumulate in cells, 11:28 leading to eventually chronic structural changes. So keeping your CO2 up steadily and not an average year after year after year gradually prevents the structural changes. So keeping yourself in the CO2, thyroid-responsive state, doesn’t get harder with aging. If you slip back periodically, going out of the carbon dioxide state tends to allow, for example, collagen to increase and lipofuscin and other esters of cholesterol 12:30 with polyunsaturated fats and other things increase sort of as a harmful baggage that builds up with age. So just steadily keeping your energy up day after day has the long-range protective effect of not letting those things accumulate so fast. I think it was maybe our last conversation. I listened to it again. But you were saying the calcium, whether it was sedative or excitatory, depended on carbon dioxide. The CO2 one of its actions in the bloodstream is to form compounds, not exactly calcium bicarbonate, but complex ionic compounds keeping calcium in an ionized state. 13:38 And when it’s in this ionized, water-soluble state, it isn’t in a state that has an affinity for cells. So if you just, for whatever reason, like hyperventilating, if you hyperventilate for a minute or two, you’ll notice that your fingers and hands and feet tend to cramp up. Losing the calcium outside of cells in the water-soluble state, along with other changes happening with the loss of carbon dioxide, the calcium goes into cells instead of being held outside by the CO2. So the absence of CO2 in the cell in itself makes the cell gain an affinity for calcium. 14:41 And the lack of CO2 in the bloodstream and extracellular fluid will cause the calcium itself to go into a form that has an affinity for inside the cell. Isn’t the mechanism for entering the cell by calcium binding with ADP? When ADP levels drop, ADP levels rise, calcium has an affinity for ADP, and that’s what’s getting it inside the cell, or at least keeping it there? Yeah, ATP binds magnesium, so most of the magnesium in the cell is attached to the ATP molecule. And with a lower energy state, less thyroid and less CO2, the ATP isn’t reformed as fast. So you have more ADP, which binds calcium, 15:42 so that’s part of the cell increasing its affinity for calcium. At the same time, the calcium is losing its affinity for the blood solution. So if you’re not producing enough CO2, there’s nothing to take calcium outside of the cell as well, right? Calcium, or CO2, effectively by streaming as it’s formed, it’s constantly streaming from the mitochondria into the extracellular fluid. And that tends to drag with it the mobile ions, calcium, and sodium. So they’re being mobilized by the moving stream of carbon dioxide. And when you lack carbon dioxide, 16:44 the formation of lactic acid takes over. And lactic acid has the same destabilizing effects that calcium does, or lack of oxygen or lack of thyroid. The lactic acid shifts the oxidative reductive ratio of everything in the cell, so that all of the components lose their electron affinity to a small degree. So the cell, to some extent, loses its interactive affinity for carbon dioxide and progesterone. And so those become less effective if you’re producing lots of lactic acid 17:47 and letting the cell get into its more reducing state, tends to be a higher pH, which causes the cell to take up more water. And lactic acid itself is, to some extent, a key later of calcium. And it turns out that probably the best explanation for calcification of the arteries and other soft tissues is that lactic acid goes into the blood vessel or other cell at an abnormal concentration, along with increased calcium. And together, the chelated calcium and lactic combination with phosphate tends to form permanent crystallization 18:51 inside the cell. But that sort of thing happens everywhere. It’s just most visible in the blood vessels because they’re constantly exposed to the lactic acid formation by the endothelium and red blood cells, as well as what’s happening in the tissues. I saw two studies recently showing that blood vessel calcification can be directly triggered by cortisol and aldosterone. Do you think those effects of these two steroids are mostly due to the fact that they interfere with the oxidative metabolism and increase the production of lactic acid? Yep. Block the energy. The aldosterone and cortisol both directly interfere with mitochondrial oxygen use. 19:57 Ray, do you see the intracellular calcium? Is that like a signal or a message to slow down the system or is it like a biological scope? How do you interpret that event? In one situation, it’s a challenge to adapt to. And so it can be a growth and development signal that accounts for our particular shape. But that same process, when we are no longer evolving fast enough to invent something new to do with it, then you start getting the effect in which it makes tissues stay too long in the excited state. It gets harder and harder to rouse your oxidative resources 20:59 to relax the tissues and squeeze the calcium out and stop the lactate production. I have a question. If there isn’t enough ATP to bind the magnesium, my guess is that magnesium will simply flow out of the cell, right? Yeah, apparently that’s what happens when your thyroid is low. So the medical test, if you go to the doctor, they’ll say, oh, let me test your blood magnesium. Well, maybe magnesium in the blood shouldn’t be high. That wouldn’t necessarily be a good sign, right? Since it’s an intracellular mineral. Yeah, exactly like high potassium often means that your cells are dying and letting their potassium leak into the bloodstream, same with magnesium. Do you think there’s any good blood test for intracellular magnesium? I saw some kind of a company advertising 22:00 an erythrocyte magnesium test. Would that be a good one? Except that erythrocytes are mainly glycolytic in their energy system. So they aren’t very representative of the oxidative cells, but it’s undoubtedly better than just the dissolved magnesium. What about hair and nail test for magnesium? The nails are probably pretty good, but hair is exposed to the air and any water that you get on your hair. And dust and fumes bind strongly to the hair. So hair is a terrible way to get an impression of what’s happening in your body. But nails will be better, and for things like steroids, 23:02 maybe? Yeah, especially toenails, where they’re relatively shielded if you wear shoes all the time. OK. Ray, you mentioned the intracellular calcium being excitatory, but also in your, what’s this newsletter called, fats, functions, and malfunctions newsletter. You quoted an article, what said that DHA and arachidonic acid brought the cells to a new steady state of moderately elevated intracellular calcium level, where the cells became virtually insensitive to external stimuli. This new steady state can be considered a mechanism of self-protection. And so can you expand on that? And then I thought it’s kind of interesting, as the cells are becoming insensitive to stimuli, and then you could probably draw a direct correlation between the person becoming insensitive to stimuli. And I don’t know if there’s a connection there. I think so. The probably the long-range thing 24:04 is the cholesterol, PUFA ester, that interferes with the proper stabilizing functions of cholesterol. And so in a way, it’s keeping the cell in an activated condition that lets calcium remain too long. And in that semi-activated condition, you just don’t have as far to move, in effect. If you’re already half contracted, then it takes a giant stimulus to get you to contract the rest of the way. The readiness to contract is a very high structural energy storage effect. 25:04 ATP and proteins in a hydrophobic state, when they get just a sufficient trigger, will undergo a huge activation with contraction if they’re a muscle cell, but with a powerful convection if they’re a nerve cell. But if they’re in already a half activated state, the triggering mechanism is already half spent. And so it takes something different to get the residual, mostly glycolizing cell to become functional and active. 26:08 Have you seen the recently a study came out that was on patients with COVID-19? And I was surprised to see the doctor there said that, as if it was common knowledge, that apparently calcium and albumin can bind and directly deactivate endotoxin. Is that a specific property of calcium? Or do all of sodium, potassium, and magnesium also have this property? I don’t know. I haven’t seen that. OK. Another example of an excited state that loses sensitivity would be cancer cells. They have the inability to relax. So they’re always acting as if they’re being powerfully stimulated. And that makes them blind to the things that should be stimulating them and guiding their functions. What’s the differentiator between a cell 27:10 becomes over-excited and shifts into the proliferative stage versus becoming, I think you might have described it already, but not being sensitive to it. Is it an age of the cells type of thing or what? Probably a lot of things acting on whether the mitochondria can activate the cell dissolution process of apoptosis, in which the cell activates the right proteolytic enzymes and dehydrates and harmlessly deconstructs in the particles that can be phagocetized. That takes a certain amount of energy and residual resources 28:12 to get things to die in an organized way. And when a cell is beyond that state of responding to stress with a neat dissolution making way for replacement cells, then you get either a nasty inflammatory lingering death that poisons its environment in all directions or it becomes a deranged, at best, scar tissue or keloid sort of cell, at worst, a tumor cell. I wanted to go back a little bit to speaking about the cancer cells being over-excited. I’m sure you’ve seen there’s some older studies showing that the giving animals with cancer, GABA drugs, 29:15 like the benzodiazepines, was highly therapeutic. How is GABA, I mean, we know that GABA is an inhibitory system. How does GABA act on the calcium in the cell, if at all? Do you think it somehow gets the excess calcium out of the cell and that’s what allows it to calm the cells down? I’ve always assumed that, but it just occurred to me that one of the functions might be to activate the calcium binding system. Calb Bindon, for example, that’s an alternative to getting it out of the cell. And I hadn’t thought about whether GABA can activate that process. But yeah, that’s the basic thing that the GABA gets rid of the sodium and calcium excess. OK. And another interesting study, again, old because these things don’t seem to be interesting to doctors these days, 30:15 show that infusions into animals with cancer of the magnesium salt of ATP, so magnesium bound to ATP, quickly made their tumors go away over a period of just six to seven hours. Do you think that’s the energetic supply of ATP and magnesium was the signal that allowed the cell to get rid of its extra calcium and calm down? Yeah, I think so. The compound with magnesium probably is the right way to use ATP therapeutically because other forms will break down easily, become external free ATP is very dangerous. It’s one of the major danger signals or activators of inflammation. But when it’s bound to magnesium, it is probably not toxic outside the cell 31:18 and can get inside the cell easier. As far as your recommendation to consume a significant amount of calcium daily, aside from calcium lowering parathyroid hormone and, I guess, increasing lowering inflammation and, I guess, increasing cellular metabolism, what other reasons are for recommending the high calcium diet? Because some people have been emailing me and saying, somebody is in a state of calcium overload, giving them that extra calcium. Wouldn’t that make things worse for some people? No, the harmful calcium overload usually results from high parathyroid hormone, which usually goes with increased aldosterone and other problems. But the overload is intracellular under the influence 32:19 of the anti-metabolic action of parathyroid hormone. And so vitamin D and calcium act first to knock down parathyroid hormone, the lower the better and let the cells return to the self-maintaining state. People who have had their parathyroid hormone, parathyroid glands removed surgically for kidney disease are often recovered from lots of the symptoms of chronic kidney disease. Their sleep improves. They might stop having seizures. A lot of inflammatory things are decreased when they simply cut out the parathyroid glands. But that’s because there are poisons being produced mostly 33:20 in the intestine when the kidneys are failing that drive up the parathyroid hormone. And if your kidneys haven’t deteriorated, then taking vitamin D and getting lots of calcium will hold down your parathyroid hormone and let the cells reenergize themselves and get rid of their calcium. And when I talk about vitamin D, I mean the cholecalciferol, definitely not the 1,25 hydroxy or dihydroxycholecalciferol. That activates the so-called vitamin D receptor. And those are activated by high parathyroid hormone. And they do the dirty work of the high parathyroid hormone. 34:25 Turning on lactic acid production is one of their essential actions. Production of lactic acid in the bones is the sometimes useful effect of parathyroid hormone. When you need to draw calcium out of the bones, the parathyroid hormone makes lactic acid locally and dissolves enough calcium to move into the bloodstream. But if you have persistently high parathyroid hormone, then that keeps acting and you’re constantly moving calcium into the bloodstream and in the presence of the lactic acid being produced everywhere in the body under the influence of parathyroid hormone, then the calcium 35:27 gets stuck in all of your tissues. So two questions. So I guess you just explained. So I guess as you know, most people with advanced cancer have this condition called hyperchalcemia. That’s probably due to the excessive lactic acid, which all tumors produce. And I’m guessing high parathyroid hormone, right? Yep. And I’ve been thinking for a long time that there should be a regular testing every time a person has a medical blood test. I think they should check the level of lactate in the blood. You can diagnose cancer even if you can’t find a tumor if you have a serious cancer developing somewhere your blood lactate is going to be increasing. And the lactate becomes carcinogenic to other tissues. 36:32 So the cancer doesn’t necessarily have to metastasize to spread because it’s putting out the toxic levels of lactic acid, tending to burn other cells into either cancer or cells that favor the development of cancer. Just for posterity, where would you want to see the lactic acid? What would it be a healthy amount? Now they usually say the normal range is 0.05, I think it’s millimoles, to 2.2. And already at 2, the mortality is increasing. People with 2 and above when they come into a hospital are less likely to get out alive than the people who are well under 2. So I would say maybe 1.0 would be a maximum compatible 37:39 with health. Did you see the new studies that came out with COVID patients entering the hospital? The ones that didn’t survive more than 80% already had some level of lactic acidosis before even getting admitted to the hospital? Yeah, I think the lactic acid is starting with endotoxin. Lactic acid produced under the influence of endotoxin becomes the agent of all of the problem symptoms, blood clotting, increased serotonin effects of all sorts inflammatory, swelling, congestion, and edema of the lungs and the brain, all of those things are activated by the lactic acid. 38:40 In your FATS malfunction article, you said the intracellular calcium increases lipolysis. Is that, how is that working out? Is there a signal to like the hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenals to release hormones? No, right inside the cell, like in the heart muscle or anywhere other than just acting. FC Mayerson had his famous calcium triad, which was the Japanese researcher Fujita concentrated a lot on the ubiquity of calcium intracellular concentration with deterioration and death. But FC Mayerson said besides contraction, calcium acts to increase proteolytic enzymes and lipolytic enzymes and nucleic acid degrading enzymes. 39:47 Those were the three main effects that made calcium deadly under the prolonged influence of stress and lactate. And then you also say it increases the phospholipases that release arachidonic acid from cells. So this is something that doesn’t have to happen. So this is just exclusively bad, right? Yeah, the prostaglandins are just one of the consequences of lipolysis, sort of random inflammatory lipolysis creates even the lesser than like compounds become toxic when released inappropriately. In that Fujita paper, he calls the intracellular calcium I think he calls it like the final common path of cell death 40:50 or something. Is nitric oxide involved? And I don’t know if he wrote about it, but is the increase in nitric oxide, is that how it’s basically killing the cell? Yeah, there are a lot of pathways that converge on nitric oxide, too, like on calcium uptake. They all end up lowering oxidative production of energy blocking CO2 formation. I have a question about lactate. So let’s say there is a buildup of lactate in the body. I’ve been looking at some, again, older studies showing that methylene blue can directly reoxidize lactate back 41:50 to pyruvate. Do you know of any other intervention that may help lower it outside of breeding into a paper bag? The right amount of caffeine helps. All of the anti-inflammatory things are helpful. Wouldn’t quinones, in general, help to reoxidize lactate back to a pyruvate? Yeah, I think vitamin K and ubiquinone are part of the defensive process. I noticed there was a study that was using a low dose doxycycline because they noticed it had an anti-ostoporotic effect in post-menopausal women. And one of the surprising findings that they had was that these women’s lactic acid dropped dramatically. 42:51 So I thought maybe doxycycline being a quinone itself was acting like methylene blue and reoxidizing lactate back to pyruvate. Yeah, that is very reasonable because some of the flavonoids, like fecetin, just by a slight shift in the electron affinity in the direction of more oxidized retraction of electrons will have a big effect on stopping lactic acid formation and getting the cell back into the oxidizing condition. Would things like apigenin and noringin also have similar effect? Because I’ve noticed you mentioned these in a few of your articles. Yeah, I think those are the three most active, 43:51 but there are several with a similar, not quite as intense, pro-oxidative effects. There’s a Wikipedia page about natural progesterones, molecules that act like progesterones in existing nature. They call fecetin, apigenin, and noringin phytoprogestrogens because they activate the progesterone receptor. Really? I’ve never seen that. Yeah, if you type in Google phytoprogestrogens, immediately Wikipedia page will come up and these three are listed there. I was pretty surprised. But they now recommend them as, well, they don’t recommend, but they’re saying these could be alternatives to women who don’t want to take steroidal therapy because these apparently act the same way. They’re all doing a little bit of the same thing. So there are probably 1,000 favorable things you can do, 44:54 but medicine hasn’t got onto the idea that the organism works as a whole. So they think of disease and symptom and drug as singular things rather than part of this almost formless, interactive whole. Ray, when I talked to you a few years ago, I asked you about prolactin and parathyroid hormone and how they, from a layman stance, they seem to have so many parallel functions. Do you think one, like a fall of before the other one? And then you quoted a paper from, I think, a gentleman named Raymond saying that they would tend to follow each other. But occasionally it goes. Yeah, but that has been discussed several times that at different stages, evolution 45:55 invents one way to do something. And then as it advances, it invents another way, but it doesn’t give up the first invention. And so usually we have two or three or more ways of doing everything. Occasionally, I’ve seen a lab work and the prolactin will come back, I don’t know, at five or six. And then the parathyroid hormone will come back at like 40 or 50. Is that just a moment in time that there was a difference in those hormones? And then if you measure it an hour later, it might be radically different. Different things like thyroid deficiency, increasing TSH, fairly directly increases prolactin without such a direct effect on parathyroid hormone. 46:56 But there are many levels of the interaction. The thyroid tropon release hormone happens to activate prolactin release. So they vary closely with each other. And cortisol tends to go in the same direction. High cortisol and the parathyroid hormone and prolactin are doing similar things. But each one has its own other regulatory influences. One can go up without the other, but they tend to be doing the same calcium mobilizing action. And then if I’m remembering this right, and maybe it was your milk article, you talked about a parathyroid hormone related protein, 47:57 and that being related to what was it endotoxin. So the parathyroid hormone and the calcium metabolism has this direct connection to endotoxin. Is that right? Yeah, just as one of our basic threatening environmental factors, starting to disorganize the cell, making the cell respond. So because you mentioned parathyroid related peptide or related protein, PTHRP, it’s known to be dramatically overproduced in cancer patients. Do you think that’s something that cancer cells produce themselves? And that’s actually responsible for hyperchalcemia? Or is it PTHRP is the elevation as a result of endotoxin? And it just happens to be a bystander to cancer as well. I think both of them happen, but they know that cancer cells usually produce a lot of the parathyroid related protein. 49:01 OK. What would be the purpose of the cancer cell producing that, to mobilize, to basically get more calcium for itself? Yeah, apparently. OK. So what is the cancer cell trying to get to? Because if we assume that the cancer is not trying to kill us, it’s simply a sign of a deranged metabolism or a bad environment, what is the end goal of the cancer cell? It’s trying desperately to survive, or what is it? Why does it need more calcium? What it really needs is something to ionize the calcium and get rid of it. But I don’t know whether there would be an actual survival function. It’s possible that it’s just actually too disorganized 50:03 to have any survival meaning. OK. In one of your articles, you mentioned that cancer cells have such hunger for polyunsaturated fats that they can get quickly overloaded with them and die. Maybe the same thing may be happening with calcium. There’s just a desperate attempt to trigger apoptosis, right, if they get overloaded with calcium? Yeah, that’s a reasonable thought. A few more questions that we can move on to politics. But Ray, I think something I’ve heard very frequently is Ray’s emphasis on calcium is misguided, because evolutionarily, we would have never got that much calcium in our diet. So what is your perspective on that? Oh, well, eating leaves. Leaves are very rich in calcium relative to the protein 51:05 in leaves. That’s why where milk gets its high concentration of calcium in relation to protein is mainly from the leafy diet. And if fruit is our evolutionary main driving force, the high sugar metabolism allows a low stress metabolism that can use its calcium very efficiently, not wasting it. In experiments with a calcium deficient diet, when they added sucrose, I think it was dogs, 52:07 the animals that got extra sucrose had stronger bones, even without enough calcium in their diet. So the idea that we evolved eating gigantic proportions of meat, do you think that’s pure fantasy? Oh, yeah, I don’t think that’s possible, because of the effect of high phosphate to calcium ratio. One of the effects of eating a high fruit diet with sucrose, 50% of sucrose being fructose. Fructose metabolism lowers the reductive force of the cell, shifts it into the oxidizing state the same way vitamin K and fiscitin and so on act on the cell. 53:10 And so the pattern of cell metabolism when we have enough sucrose is to not let calcium get into its toxic condition, which is favored when the cell is in a high redox state, lactic acid dominated. Do you think the evidence, I might articulate it wrong, but like the isotopes of, and those people say that’s evidence for the high meat eating, what do you make of their evidence that they say man evolved eating lots of meat? Just do you know which isotopes you’re talking about? I shouldn’t have done it on the fly. I should have looked up, but they always say there’s like, I don’t know, evidence, like physical evidence that man evolved eating lots of meat. But I should have obviously picked up something OK, last question, unless Georgie has more. 54:14 Yes, I have a few. Well, I think first going back to the meat eating, even carnivores don’t eat meat all the time. They hunt, you know, if they successfully kill an animal, they eat and then they go hungry for like, I don’t know, a week, 10 days before they managed to hunt another animal. So I don’t think humans were capable being much poorer predators than the apex predators. I don’t think our ancestors were capable of eating meat every day and probably not even like once a week. So I’m not buying that either. And I think also I wanted to add to raise or more of a question. Fructose also tends to deplete phosphate in the body, right? Because its metabolism consumes phosphorus. What metabolism consumes phosphorus? The conversion of fructose into glucose in the body, I think it consumes phosphorus, right? Yeah, it lowers the interest, a little bit of phosphate, at least. 55:14 Right, so that should lead to an increase in the calcium to phosphorus ratio. In effect, yeah. OK. And I think a lot of the big-mouthed carnivores probably ate quite a bit of bone calcium, chewing the small bones. I just, the reason I’m asking the question about fructose and phosphorus is that somebody sent me a study recently and the study says, don’t eat fructose. It’s going to lower your energy levels because if fructose metabolism consumes the phosphorus, you will not have enough to synthesize ATP. What would you respond to that argument? Well, there’s an optimal level of ATP and you never get your phosphates alone that you can’t use it to make as much ATP as you need. 56:19 And an excess of phosphate has not only the calcium binding effect and cell damage, but it has a tendency to keep the cell in the excited state. In itself, it is pro-excitatory and that burdens the cell and makes it tend towards inefficient, ultimately glycolizing metabolism. So keeping your phosphate under control, that’s the good thing that parathyroid hormone does is help to excrete phosphate. But the accumulation of phosphate with aging, that’s what has made the clasogene 57:21 so interesting the last 10 or 15 years. The anti-aging protein is mainly a calcium phosphate regulator preventing those pro-aging effects of too much phosphate. So the androgens and some steroids, basically getting the calcium out of the cell that may be done through the activation of the clotogen, right? Yeah, it is connected to all of these other interesting signaling and energy substances. Have you seen the, there are a few studies only there. There are not that many that the polycosinols, the very long chain fatty acid, saturated fatty acid alcohols are also capable of activating cloto? No, I haven’t seen that, but that effect of a long saturated 58:24 chain, whether it’s alcohol or the tail of a fatty acid, that has a structural calming, stabilizing effect in lots of ways. So it’s logical that it would be favoring the cloto. I’m sure you’ve noticed, you’ve heard that a lot of Caribbean countries have a very high number of centenarians per capita. And it’s considered, they call it the Caribbean paradox, because they also smoke a lot of cigars and drink a lot of rum. Do you think maybe they’re high consumption of polycosinols, which are present in sugarcane and many other of the foods, traditional foods, eaten there, do you think that may have something to do with their longevity? Yeah, there are several good studies in which there is a powerful correlation between saturation of the tissues and longevity. 59:25 The more poofy you have, the shorter your life is. Speaking of evolution, I cannot believe I’ve never asked you about this, but the Bosca skull and people with those larger head kind of situations. What if you were to speculate, what do you think is going on there? Like, I’m sure it’s more than just nutrition, right? They probably lived up high on Mount Kilimanjaro and grew watermelons and watermelons. And when you look at those skulls, like, are there parts like this is the cerebral cortex? Is it just it’s like getting taller? Like, what do you think is happening there? Yeah, there are a lot of these things we’ve been talking about increase the foldedness of the cortex. The low energy things tend to give us 01:00:26 a flatter, less wrinkled, thinner cortex. And even within an individual lifetime, you can see thickening or thinning of the cortex according to, for example, your progesterone, the estrogen ratio, your carbon dioxide delactate. The cortex is growing all the time, given the energy and conditions. And as it produces more functioning cells, it gets thicker and, in effect, longer and has wrinkled since the whole, the linear or the area of it, increases. And on a sphere, that means it has to get more and more 01:01:26 wrinkly. And that thickens it, even though the layer in itself is keeping the same structure. The wrinkles get deeper. Go ahead. I think that’s the thing that can, in a very short time, account for a very big skull like the Boscop. You mentioned, I think it was our last episode, the last 130 years of history were fraudulent. Historians, seemingly, are completely uninterested in something like the Boscop skull. Like, what are our origins more mysterious and more interesting than a standard history book? Oh, yeah, all of the history and biological books are written to confirm a paradigm which is radically wrong. 01:02:28 If you start with Franz Boaz, who was sort of the founder of scientific anthropology, he studied head shape. And the reason he isn’t popular is that he showed what profound effects environment can have on the overall shape of the skull in just a single generation. People with parents coming from the same region of Europe with the same in the community in Europe, their heads all had the same ratio of length and width and height. But if they lived in New York or Puerto Rico, their heads changed according to the head 01:03:29 shape of the people around them. Obviously, something about the climate and diet in a single generation changed those so-called evolutionary anthropological physical characteristics. I’m not an expert in his work. I know some people will probably laugh. But Graham Hancock, what do you think about the ideas that he floats like Atlantis and things like that? Is there any merit to any of that kind of information? Probably considering how doctrinaire and wrong most of the conventional things are. I think it’s good to look at anything that is being offered that isn’t, obviously, completely insane. Well, it’s hard to find out what’s insane and what’s not because the mainstream information is often so wrong. 01:04:30 And so is there a person better than Graham that you think has things more figured out? Well, anyone that starts with some kind of empirical information that can be checked on or that is well-established, then you can check how the reason from that existing information. Well, one of the structures he was talking about was like gobeki tepi or something, and apparently that changed how old we were or something like that. Do you have any additional information on that? No. Gobeki tepi, it’s in Turkey. I have a statement and two questions. Speaking of size of the head and the jaw and whatnot, actually vitamin K at this point has really strong, still anecdotal evidence, as the doctors would say, 01:05:30 because there’s no study on that yet, that just the even smaller amounts, which is like a few milligrams a day, drastically increased the size, the ratio of head to body size, and also they make the jaw wider in a matter of months to just a year. So that immediately validates anything about this being set genetically and not changing with the generation or two. Have you noticed any changes in your facial structure from using vitamin K, Ray? I haven’t connected it to anything in particular, but yeah, with aging, everyone’s head gets wider. And a thing published about 40 years ago on a sort of a handbook of aging data showed that with every decade that they had data up to the age of 90, there was a steady increase 01:06:34 in the amount of DNA inside the skull. So the head is getting wider, the skull, cavity is getting larger, and there’s more cells inside the skull. So just like a rat, we never stop growing for as long as we’re alive, right? Yeah, I think you see Berkeley somewhere in the Bay Area, Marion Diamond in the 1960s was working with a group studying the effective environment. An enriched environment caused the every generation of the rats grew a bigger brain and were more intelligent. And she followed that up with looking at the effective intrauterine hormone exposure and found that confirming the work of others 01:07:34 that increased progesterone prenatally radically increased the brain size. Estrogen not only decreased the mass of the brain and the thickness of the cortex, but it even increased the shape of the face, making the jaws bigger in relation to the cranium. So it was like a more mature looking rat. The progesterone produced a bigger cranium in relation to the face, and so sort of a baby-faced rat, more intelligent looking, but younger looking too. Have you noticed difference in the pictures of Hollywood stars from like the 50s and 60s versus today? They look strikingly different. And to me, the modern stars, quote unquote, are kind of hideous. Have you noticed that change in faces? 01:08:34 Yeah, I think Trump’s wives illustrate the stylish change in Hollywood and all of the advertising culture. He has picked out the stylish contemporary women to marry. OK. Going back a little bit to the Boscovsky, I noticed some articles that some anthropologists are studying the Indians that live in the Andes, the Andes mountains in Bolivia and Peru. And one of the things that they noticed that I remember reading that was maybe about 10 years ago is two things. First of all, even in very old Indians living up in the mountains, there was no decline in DHEA and testosterone in the males. So those males were just as rural and energetic in their 70s as were men in their late 20s to mid-30s. 01:09:35 And another thing they noticed, yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, and the second thing they noticed more recently was that also the older males, they look more like children and their heads were bigger. So I immediately thought of the Boscovsky and I thought that maybe the same process of living altitude is not just in Africa, but probably there are many other cultures where we can find such examples if one cares to look for them. Yeah, a progesterone is compensating, tends to increase and make up for the reduced oxygen concentration. The progesterone facilitates the delivery of oxygen and sugar to the tissues. And so they tend to have a higher ratio of progesterone to estrogen during pregnancy, which 01:10:38 would favor that proportion of the skull. When the Vilkabamba age thing was, I think National Geographic wrote about it in 1960s, a woman reporter went to interview some of these people who had the church records showing that they were in their 130s or 140s. And she said one of the old guys around 150 hit on her. Speaking of that, I think it was an interview or news that actually was an interview. You talked about flamingos, that nobody really knows how long they live, but the people are now fairly certain that they live past 150. And more importantly, there was no difference in terms of health span. 01:11:39 In other words, an older flamingo was just as healthy and energetic as a younger flamingo. Do you know what that could be due to? I guess something in the diet? I think high salt and calcium, they tend to live in salty lakes. And I think their diet is exaggeratedly overloaded with both calcium and salt. Is it like the algae that they eat or something, like from the algae or something, fish? Yeah, and fish. And just when you take an mouthful of fish, you’re going to get some of the salty water. OK, that’s all I had. Obviously, I want to talk about Trump since you brought him up, right? But I know you’ve done a lot of work on personality. And when I was reading through Carl Rogers’ book, I’m Becoming a Person, something he said really stuck out to me. It was, I think it’s towards the end. And he said, basically, a paraphrase. When he would go through a client-centered therapy 01:12:42 session with somebody, they ended up being more, he said, toward becoming a process and not needing the information be planned out. And they could be more fluid and go with the flow. I can just read this thing here. He says, the second observation is difficult to make because we do not have a good word for it. Clients seem to be more moved toward more openly being a process, a fluidity, a changing. They are not disturbed to find that they are not the same from day to day. And they do not always hold the same feelings toward a given experience or a person that they are not always consistent. Do you, thinking about that, do you map on a certain hormonal situation to that at all, Ray? Oh, yeah. All of the things that reduce stress and rigidity, lowering your serotonin, tends to make you less authoritarian and rigid. And so increasing cell energy makes you more flexible mentally. 01:13:48 And Margaret Mead, who was Fanz Boaz’s student, in her work, she showed that literacy freezes everything associated with the literacy, which tends to be authoritarianism. But the literate cultures tend to freeze and give the impression that cultural change is as slow as biological evolution is supposed to be. And she showed that in the nonliterate cultures, as soon as anything changed requiring a cultural adaptation, they were absolutely flexible and simply intelligently revised their whole culture. So the whole idea of a cultural history being 01:14:51 a long-term rigid process, it falsifies what the person is really doing, that they’re constantly re-infending culture if they aren’t having it, has drilled into them by authority. And then a similar question for Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. You think that self, I don’t know if you subscribe to this concept, but the self-actualization and then that being associated with wanting to help others and not necessarily caring about what other people think of you, do you think that is similar hormonal situation of feeling really good? Yeah, the perception of others right from the beginning, you feel empathy as soon as you recognize that you are in the world. You see how others express their body movements. 01:15:53 You feel in your own body when you see them make a gesture or expression. You feel what it feels like on yourself. And so right from the beginning, all of our understanding is empathetic. There is no awareness of the world, which isn’t also assimilating the empathetic view of others, that you feel their need for justice the same way you feel it for yourself. And that’s one of the things that has to be educated out of people, the tendency to feel unity with everyone you know, because you wouldn’t have the proper acquisitive behavior. 01:16:55 You wouldn’t fit into a society in which inequality is a virtue. Did you know that all doctors, at least in the United States, undergo special training to teach them not to empathize with their patients? I couldn’t believe it. Yeah, they do, because the premise that’s given is that, look, if you’re a doctor and you’re treating some pretty sick people and they all start dying, very soon you’ll get horribly depressed and commit suicide. Speaking of suicide, did you know that doctors have the highest suicide rate of any profession? Yeah, I’ve heard that. Yeah. So the second thing is my question, I guess it’s a question. Do you think that analytical thought, which is so heavily emphasized and drilled literally into everybody’s head since they start going to school, do you think that that process is under the control of serotonin somehow? Yeah, serotonin creates basically fear and anxiety 01:18:02 and withdrawal, and education really is designed to change our organism towards a follow the leader, follow instructions kind of behavior. The reason I’m asking is that it’s one of the very common symptoms in people with depression, which we know it’s driven by serotonin, is that they tend to overanalyze almost every situation, and they’re being taught by their psychiatrists to ignore the inputs from the environment. They’re saying the psychiatrist says, no, you don’t need to worry about the world around you. Just figure out things in your head, because depression is all in your head. And I’m thinking that’s exactly the opposite of what the patient should be doing. They should be opening themselves up to the world instead of shutting down, right? Yeah, the world is constantly there to stream into you with newness. 01:19:07 Any contact from the world tends to be exhilarating, and it’s only the essentially learned helplessness that makes people turn inward and detach from the environment and the stimulating properties, particularly other people. So if we could switch to coronavirus, Georgie, unless you have any other questions. OK, can I do a quick summary here? When you’re talking about the coronavirus increasing angiotensin and hypertensive symptoms and things like that, the virus itself is real, and it has been studied. But people testing positive is completely a facade. Is that right? Like the numbers and things like that, because there’s no accurate test, that is a total, I don’t know, chicanery or whatever. Is that right to say or no? 01:20:10 Yeah, they’re calling everything that tests on one test or another. If it tests positive, they’re calling that a case. But case always has meant a case of sickness, but a case of positivity on a test. It’s dishonest to call out the case when it’s only a test. And the test, if it’s very accurate in finding some of the nucleic acid or protein of the virus, it doesn’t mean that you have reacted to the virus at all. And if you’ve reacted to it, it doesn’t mean that you have had any sickness reaction at all. It simply means that the virus has been detected. And the people who are susceptible to getting 01:21:11 sick from that sort of virus, this particular kind of coronavirus happens to attach to the ACE2 enzyme, which is a proteolytic enzyme that destroys antiotensin. And so if there is a huge amount of the enzyme of the virus circulating, if you have reproduced it and there’s a lot of it in your bloodstream, it will be inactivating the proteolytic enzyme that destroys the inflammatory antiotensin. So the virus is capable of turning on your inflammatory system. Everything that antiotensin acts on will be released 01:22:16 and intensified until you have the resources to turn off antiotensin, for example, progesterone and carbon dioxide will contract the effects of antiotensin. And so the process of getting sick from coronavirus simply doesn’t happen if you have the proper physiological response to increasing antiotensin, which is to increase your carbon dioxide and progesterone, turn off the inflammation at the base. I guess what I’m saying is if the tests are so inaccurate, what you’re saying is almost a mood point because nobody can know for sure if they even have this thing. Is that right? Or is that too much of a stretch? 01:23:16 No, it’s OK to find out that you have the virus sitting on your nasal membranes or wherever. But if it’s there and you haven’t got sick, that’s just the normal. 80% of the people don’t bother getting sick when it’s present because they have enough progesterone and carbon dioxide and not too much poofa. Linolac acid is required for the virus to take on its virulent shape. Did you see the recent article in the British Medical Journal? It was more of an opinion, but actually an article as well that showed, I guess, three main points that really struck me. For me, that was the last name on the coffin of the whole COVID thing. Number one, 20% to 50% of people have preexisting immunity to that thing. So the whole thing about this being a novel virus, 01:24:17 or maybe it is a novel virus, but the article says, look, it’s so similar to other coronaviruses that just like the swine flu, which apparently also was discovered that most people have up to 60% have actually preexisting immunity, now we’re seeing 20% to 50% of people around the world have already preexisting immunity to this virus. The other thing the article notices is that most of the people that had preexisting immunity, they had no antibodies. So this means that the whole antibody test may be bogus in terms of determining immunity to this virus, which immediately made me think, hold on a second, most of the flu vaccines, and literally any vaccines against the virus, when they undergo clinical trials, they rely on the antibody test to say, oh, this vaccine is working, you’re now immune to this virus. But this study is now saying, no, actually, antibodies are really not very reliable. It’s T cell reactivity, which should be looked at. And almost nobody is looking at that because the tests are much more expensive. 01:25:19 But it may turn out that we are immune to a majority of the viruses that are in circulation simply because they’re so similar to each other, at least they’re groups of viruses that we’ve all been exposed to. And we may have a significant preexisting immunity to most of the viruses that are in circulation right now, even if they’re slightly different from each other. What do you think of that? That should stimulate a reconsideration of the whole 115 years of medical immunology theory, but I don’t think it will. The whole history starting with Paul Ehrlich and his Wacken key thing and equating his chemical toxins with antibodies, that whole thing is bogus. The real immune system is everything 01:26:21 in the organism that makes it able to stay healthy in the presence of things that could possibly make it sick. But his dye, mercury compounds, various organic chemical treatments that he equated to the Wacken key antibody antigen reaction, that happens. But it isn’t what makes us immune. It’s a horrible chemical, commercial ploy to sell products, absolutely lacking science, which should start with cells such as T cells and all of the different fight blood cell like resin tissue cells, mast cells, dendritic cells, 01:27:24 a whole range of things that don’t produce antibodies but that are essential for maintaining good health. Those things are the real immune system, but to understand them, you have to understand the whole physiology and it’s easier to think in terms of Wacken key and something you can buy from a pharmaceutical monopoly. So as far as the antibodies, I also thought there’s something else here, though. For some diseases that are viral, actually having a high antibody titer, it’s a really bad sign. The hepatitis viruses and I think HIV are prime example. You don’t want, I mean, this is a sign you may die soon if you have very high levels of antibodies. How did they manage to sell the fraud of certain viral diseases? It’s good to have antibodies, too, but for others, it’s not. Have they ever explained that publicly? No, they don’t like to talk about evidence 01:28:29 unless it can be fitted into the Wacken key idea. Progesterone is considered an immune suppressant, but that’s because it limits our antibody production where estrogen drives a furious production of antibodies, but limits estrogen destroys our thymus. If it’s dominant, a progesterone can regenerate the thymus. What it’s doing is reducing the potentially autoimmune anti-survival antibody system and promoting the thymocentric innate resistant system, reducing inflammation while allowing regeneration and restoration. 01:29:32 You just gave me a great insight, saying that estrogen increases the production of antibodies. As you well know, since estrogen is involved in many of the blood cancers, like lymphomas, leukemias, etc., is it the high estrogen that’s making these cancers very often have very high antibodies to viruses like the Jc virus or the Epstein virus? It’s really the high estrogen that’s causing this, not the virus causing the leukemia. I think so, and lots of people get convinced that they have chronic Epstein problems. It’s the estrogen driving their antibody-producing system wild, and what they need is progesterone. I’ve seen cases diagnosed as fairly serious, if not terminal, lupus, for example, clear up over and either or within a week of using progesterone, 01:30:41 simply by restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen, gets rid of that wild production of antibodies. Are any of the steroids that may have similar effect, like maybe cortisol, that increases the antibody production? Well, it destroys the thymus-type cell processes. It shrinks the thymus gland the way estrogen does, so it tends to leave the antibody system working. I see. Ray, maybe we could switch gears a little bit and maybe speculate about the end game of coronavirus. Like, I’ve been watching a person’s channel named Ice Age Farmer, and he’s been documenting the destruction of food warehouses and telling farmers that they can’t have cows or they have to kill their animals and things like that. He was basically pulling from the Rockefeller’s own information 01:31:46 that part of this renovation of society involved the renovation of the food system. So I could go on here, but what do you think about that? That fits perfectly and tightly, seamlessly, with the digital money program that was tried out in India, killing lots of people. And I noticed that the Rockefeller Foundation, the Gates Foundation, and the World Economic Forum are now collaborating on changing India and all of Africa to digital money. And if that happens, you don’t have to destroy the food supply to get it under total monopoly control. You’ll have everyone’s purchasing power under your central control. 01:32:51 You simply turn off their bank account if they don’t behave. You don’t have to kill their cows. Aren’t they maybe kind of doing that in China already? I haven’t been investigating that, I don’t know. So the second thing I wanted to bring up was James Corbett put out a video called A Coronavirus and Climate Change. And so, again, tying this into the old narrative, and James kind of comically says it’s silent, it’s invisible, it’s spreading everywhere, it’s going to kill us all. We have to take extraordinary measures to combat it. Coronavirus? No, silly. It’s carbon dioxide. And then Bill Gates on his blog, this is a little while ago, he said, COVID-19 is awful. Climate change could be worse. So clearly the who and Gates and other people are just like kind of seeding this into the current narrative. Do you think that’s going to take shape in the form of the end game? 01:33:52 Like maybe climate lockdowns or things something like that? Yeah, they’re getting away with a nonsense virus pandemic. And if people ever catch on, the whole thing is fraudulent. They’ll have to come up with something new. So they could come back with an acute climate problem. Actually, they’re blaming the fires on the Pacific coast on climate change. But the climate change is really being driven by the 100 years and more clear-cutting and destroying the forests, which were the climate moderators. The forests were responsible for the moderate amount of rainfall 01:34:53 that sustained those forests when they clear-cut them. And at the same time began draining lakes and rivers in the cities. The clear-cutting destroyed the soil, started depleting the underground water. And that added to the clear-cutting to destroy forests more quickly, dehydrating the whole region. And now the clear-cutting has changed the climate. And the dryness itself is stimulating the spread of fires, which increases the destruction of vegetation. And it’s a self-stimulating desertification process, but has nothing to do with carbon dioxide. What do you think about the idea that the directed energy weapons 01:35:55 are causing the fires? I… In around 1970, when they were about to cut the last of the ancient forests, a few of tiny miniature forests were set aside from logging. But at the same time, the idea of salvage logging, if there was a forest fire, was introduced just within a year of setting aside these ancient forests. And as soon as that happened, arson, apparently, because it’s really the only logical explanation for why forest fires suddenly started in these set-aside, no logging areas. But with the new law, they could rush in even before the fire was out, they could rush in and start cutting trees, 01:36:59 even trees that weren’t burned, justified by the fact that there was a fire. So arson, at least in some of the well-forced areas, has obviously been the cause of the fires. There are probably many causes. The government used to have lookouts who could see every part of the forested country, Washington, Oregon, and California, from mountaintops. The forest service is now renting those out for $800 a night to tourists, because they don’t have forest watchers. Now, the idea of fire watchers, the people who stand around evacuating populations in front of the fires, they’re our current concept of fire watchers. 01:38:03 They watched fire burn rather than watching the policy for 40 years or so was called the 10 a.m. policy. On the day following the sighting of a fire, they had to have it out by 10 a.m. the following day. Now they watch it. Justified, the story was that the Indians used to preserve the forest by allowing controlled burns to get rid of the underbrush. But after 100 years of destroying the forest, they said, let’s be ecological and have permissive forest fires, let the fire burn. But what they have is these dehydrated, highly flammable, no longer native forests that create very destructive forest fires 01:39:08 that are only valuable to the salvage loggers. So the policy now is let it burn. Our local fire started in one of these set-aside wilderness areas called the Opal Creek Wilderness. They knew it was burning for a month. It started August 16th and it happened that huge winds came up after they’d been watching it burn in the wilderness area by this new policy that allowed it to spread into these fast fires that have ruined the air for the whole Western part of the US. Well, I guess my question more, like, do you expect these kind of targeted disasters that are going to be blamed on climate change to contribute to? 01:40:09 Like, what’s the point of these disasters? Maybe if it’s arson, are they trying to move people to a certain area? Are they trying to get them out of the suburbs or something? What do you take? Oh, yeah. The overall policy is to change the whole economy, get rid of any hint of self-sufficient economic activity and turn everyone into a potential employee, make room for useful eaters. And if someone chooses not to be useful in their system, then their their fate probably isn’t going to be much better than what the Nazis did with their useless eaters. So to make people destitute, what are they going to do with all these people? 01:41:11 Like, are they going to think around them up in something? Or I know this is a dark subject, but what do you think? Yeah, there are thousands and thousands of homeless people in Portland and Eugene, and they’ve been hurting them around, moving them in places that are less conspicuous, but not not doing anything to help them, but keep them from being a nuisance or spectacle. Well, I remember it wasn’t there a storm in Texas and they cleared out like Walmarts and kept people in there kind of against their will. So stuff like that is probably in in our future already happening right now in in Portland. And, you know, the there will be more unemployed and homeless people as soon as the moratorium on foreclosures comes to an end. 01:42:12 You know, I can’t see any alternative, except a huge expansion of the homeless population. And it’s possible to survive living in a cardboard box with a plastic field against the rain, but it isn’t going to create a stable population. So within 20 years, it will have meant a reduction of the population. Go ahead, George. Yeah, so in terms of, I guess, reducing reducing the population and turning them turning the useless eatery eaters into useful eaters. How what do you think the process would look like? Because right now, I guess a useless eater is a person who is self-sufficient and they’re trying to make him into a useful eater, which means entirely dependent on the powers that be. 01:43:13 Is that is that is that your usage of the word? Yeah, a cog in the wheel, whatever the machine is that they intend to have operating. I can’t really visualize how they perceive this artificial intelligence guided society to be working 50 years from now. But if I mean, if we’re moving more and more towards centralization and automation, even the I mean, it’s just we even if you turn all of the useless eaters into useful eaters, these people are largely useless anyways, right? I mean, what are they going to do? They don’t really have jobs for all these people. I know that that’s why I can’t foresee any viable future for the recent economy of World Economic Forum. Now most people are employed. 01:44:17 Someone is making lots of profit for having billions of people making junk, useless electronic gadgets to keep the people occupied and wanting or being willing to work as long as there’s money to be extracted. This system is working, but it isn’t self-sustaining. It requires constantly pumping resources in from the the empire. And once Africans and South America have been mined to the limit, they’re simply going to have to either rethink the whole program or eliminate vast amounts of the population. The whole Imperial World Economic Forum program 01:45:20 is currently based on the empire and it’s getting essentially free raw materials and extremely cheap labor to sell to anyone who has the money to buy it. What about very, like very, very rural areas? I mean, America is a large country and, you know, while I could see the authorities rounding people up and, you know, roughing them up in like, I guess, big cities and maybe suburbs. What about like the great heartland in between? You know, do you think they’ll just have like the army sweep through the country and make sure that there’s no rural areas where people are self-sufficient? Because if these people are left to their own devices, they’ll figure out how to survive. You know, they’ll start like a chicken farm or a goat farm or a cow farm. So, you know, I guess the empire has to must have some kind of a plan of preventing that or getting rid of it if that if people kind of take matters into their own hands. 01:46:24 They already have all of these levels of local, state, county, city, government trained to be integrated with the military and the plans, the economic plans. All kinds of minor officials have been contacted by the Homeland Security to participate in their anti-terrorist programs and so on. So they’re ready to deal with anyone who starts guerrilla chicken farms or potato farms or whatever. They’ll get ruby-riched. So how are they going to? I mean, let’s say there are existing farms right now. I just, Mia, I guess it’s just me that I just have a hard time imagining that the local sheriff in rural Alabama will like 01:47:26 round up his deputies and start walking around and shooting people’s chickens and cows and animals that are already existing. Right. I mean, if these things already exist, there either has to be a program of getting rid of it in order to make people desperate or these people will not be desperate. They’ll continue, you know, thriving on their own. In the thirties, they did exactly that. They sent the military or police out to wipe out vast amounts of pigs and chickens and fruit and vegetables, destroying and burying huge amounts of food to increase the price of food to start investment coming back. And that was done supposedly to get employment increasing. And it was actually the coming war that increased employment 01:48:28 and stopped the depression. But they did it with a supposedly good intention of restoring the economy. But now they’ll have other reasons for convincing any organized shooting capable force, state police or county police or whatever to do the Ruby Ridge sort of thing, identify the independent co-ops as terrorist dangers. And then they’ll have pretext because the animals will have COVID-19. And so therefore the people will be harboring like killer virus animals. And they’ll be like you said, like they’ll be considered terrorists. And I’m sure there’ll be a media campaign against these people as well. If you’re just like a homesteader. Yeah, in the 1930s, while the government was doing that official 01:49:36 destruction of resources, the corporations had their goons out, burning down alternative newspapers, burning out co-ops of various sorts. Consumer co-ops and producer co-ops were just, they would last a few months. And then they would be destroyed by corporate employees. So do you think like, I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen it, there are some areas in the country that have extremely strong anti-government attitudes, including at the local law enforcement level. Some of these sheriffs, some of the state police, there seem to be much more, much more strongly tied to their local communities than to the federal or the state government. You don’t think that some of these people, their loyalty may switch when they see what’s going on, or do you think they’ll have a way of forcing the local law enforcement to play the ball? 01:50:39 At some point, the empire necessarily has to fail when it reaches the limit of what it can extract from the colonies. And when the empire totally fails, then we can expect intelligence to erupt in unexpected places, including such things as rural police. OK, what he’s saying for now, there’s, you know, there’s still, I guess there’s been so indoctrinated due to the constant exchange of know-how and weapons with the military that I guess the, and I’m sure the federal government is putting a tremendous effort into making sure it’s continuous, that most of the local law enforcement is sort of like heavily dependent for their jobs on the federal government, which uses this dependency to indoctrinate and provide weapons and whatnot in return for some sense of loyalty. 01:51:45 Yeah, and they’re just very, very heavily indoctrinated with the ideology that the big economy has to be preserved. Do you think China is also trying to be the next empire? Or do you think they have a more different idea of for the future? I think historically, they would be satisfied to be self-sufficient, but they are historically very good business dealers, better than Trump at making deals. And so I think they’re almost necessarily going to be a new economic empire, even if they don’t have to enforce it with the military, the way the U.S. 01:52:46 has, they’re already succeeding faster than the U.S. is, despite the U.S. having hundreds of military bases everywhere, and now they’re in the process, probably of setting up new colonies in Armenia and Azerbaijan, so that they’ve got Russia and China even more encircled than before with their colonized agent. As they say, when the bank robber runs out of banks to rob, the bank robbers lifestyle necessarily has to suffer. Do you think we’re getting to that point? Or do you think there’s still some leeway to go? Oh, yeah, it can go on for easily 10 or 15 years, but things get less and less stable. 01:53:49 So I think the opportunity for opting out of the system, people are seeing the possibilities more and more. Almost two hours. So maybe I can read these super chats and maybe I can, and Georgie asks questions if you have some, but maybe I can ask you just one question since it’s on my mind. Desiccated liver tablets have become extremely popular, Ray. And you wrote to somebody, desiccated liver contains oxidized triptophan, cysteine, vitamin A, uberquinone, and many other harmful things. Can you unpack that and maybe, I don’t know, just talk a little bit more about that? Like, if somebody hates liver, is it harmful to eat those desiccated pills versus trying to make a pate or some other form of liver? What you’ll get will be a few B vitamins that are fairly stable and lots of iron and also lots of potentially irritating or toxic breakdown products of all of those 01:54:58 highly oxidizable compounds of vitamin A in the process of oxidizing can catalyze all kinds of attacks on surrounding materials. So oxidizing the vitamin A could destroy some of the otherwise stable B vitamins. And so it’s not really a very logical way to get your liver. Eggs have many of the same nutrients in a lower concentration. And so eggs would be the next best substitute rather than dehydrated liver. Yeah, a lot of the carnivore people are like cashing out on desiccated liver. And like the beef liver, the freeze dried, that is the process you’re talking about. Like, that’s what creates like the freeze dried freeze dried. 01:56:01 That’s what creates all the harmful and oxidized products. Is that right? Yeah, if you carefully defat it to start with, get rid of uberquinone and vitamin A and vitamin D and K and so on, some of the most useful things in the liver. Then you can dehydrate it and have a good vitamin B complex. However, with lots of iron. And speaking of iron, one last question for me. And then I’ll read the supertator, Georgie, if you had other questions. But does the formation of gray hair always involve an excess of iron? Or could that oxaver stress or reductive stress? Could that be from some other instigator? Yeah, radiation. I think people often get white fisters where they’ve had dental x-rays 01:57:03 just because the x-rays destroy so much of the apparatus. Iron probably goes into the, when iron is circulating in the body, it will probably settle into the damaged pigment forming copper containing enzymes that have lost their copper. So even though excess iron wasn’t necessarily the cause of the whitening, it’s likely to show up as a presence associated with the white hair. Sort of served like in an area with toxic metals, you’ll find aluminum in the Alzheimer’s brain, but the aluminum gets there just because the Alzheimer’s process normally would be from the buildup of calcium under stress and 01:58:12 lactic acid production and so on. But if you’re exposed to aluminum, it’ll out compete the calcium in some of the places the same way with the iron. It isn’t necessarily the cause, but it’ll be associated with it very often. Okay, with that, it’s been two hours. So Ray, I’ll let you go. Let me just read these names of the people that donated the Superchats. Unfortunately, guys, I’d love to ask Ray all these questions, but we would just be on here for hours. So I told Ray I’d only keep him for two hours. So John, Rowan, for $10, thank you so much. Benji, for $5, thank you so much. Marcello, for $20, thank you so much. Christina Tomage, for $24.99. Thank you so much, Christina. XR, for Australian $7.99. Thank you so much. Michael, for $100. Thank you, Michael. Sincerely appreciate it for that, Ray. Janet Pack, for $200. Thank you so much. Oh, these are short. Michael says, thank you for inspiring the minds of Danny and Georgie. 01:59:13 Oh, I think that was to you, Ray. Janet says, thank you so much for taking the time to share all this knowledge. Were there any other ones? I was kidding. Okay, let me keep going here. Michelle, for $50. Well, thank you so much for your thought-provoking discourse. Thank you, Michelle. Harry Burgos, for $25. Thank you so much, Harry. Kathleen Stewart, for $49.99. Thank you so much, Kathleen. And she says, thank you, Dr. Pete. And Helena, for $20.00, Australian says, thank you, Danny. Thank you, Dr. Pete. Beatty and Georgie, always interesting and informative listening. OK, Ray, can you let everybody know how to subscribe to your newsletter? Its address is Ray Pete’s newsletter with the S at gmail.com. And then the status of your books. You can find that at the same address. OK, Georgie. 02:00:18 Go ahead, Ray, I cut you off. Oh, the books are all available digitally. Some are still available on paper. And then what newsletter are you working on right now? I’d like to guess pretty much the stuff we’ve been talking about tonight. Nice. And Georgie, any parting words? Not really. I had one more question for Ray, if he has time. Ray, are you familiar with quinine, the alkaloid present in tonic water, the one that gives it a bitter taste? Oh, I’ve tasted it and I’ve read about how the FDA has been abusing it by turning it into a proprietary super expensive drug instead of a natural herbal remedy, but I don’t really know much about how it works. The hydroxyl chloroquine, which is basically a, you know, a synthetic derivative of quinine, right? Yeah. Yeah. 02:01:19 The reason I’m asking is, well, first for regards to COVID, there’s a recent study came out that showed that quinine was actually 10 times more effective without any cell toxicity in killing the COVID, the coronavirus, and both preventing the virus from entering the cell and stopping an already existing infection. So I thought that that’s pretty remarkable. And again, it shows how FDA can bastardize pretty much anything good that the world provides, just for, you know, for the purpose of making money. But the reason I’m asking is that if you look further into quinine on PubMed, there are a number of pretty interesting studies showing that it depletes tryptophan similar to the way, well, actually has similar effect to the drug, uh, fenclonine, paraclorofenylalanine, but instead of inhibiting the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase, somehow the, the quinine is capable of depleting tryptophan inside of the cell and basically making it 02:02:19 deficient in serotonin. And on top of that, apparently it’s, it’s acting as a similar to the drug cyproheptidine and that also blocks the serotonin receptors. So I thought that those two, that those effects were remarkable because I don’t know of any other chemical that, that, that has, has such effects. So, uh, I thought, you know, I was wondering if you’ve seen anything, but if you haven’t, that’s fine. That can be to try some tonic water. Yes, me too. Apparently the British, uh, when they were drinking tonic water while they were colonizing India, they were drinking tonic water that was not ruined by FDA’s regulations. So it had a much higher amount of quinine. I think right now FDA limits it to about 85 milligrams per liter while the British were drinking it in a concentration of 300 to 500 milligrams per liter, and they were guzzling this all day with no ill effects, it seems. They managed to, uh, to conquer India and survive malaria and many other diseases. 02:03:20 Ray, I swear, swear there’s a last, absolute last thing. I can’t believe we didn’t talk about this, but your two minute, uh, thoughts on Trump getting, uh, uh, coronavirus. I have no, no opinion whatsoever. You don’t think it’s already chess or anything? I’m not convinced that he even has anything. It would be, uh, politically opportune to, uh, to get it, but, uh, I, I don’t think it matters very much one way or the other. Interesting. It might, might, uh, take a little, uh, away from his, uh, since he said he was using hydroxyquin on, uh, uh, it might deflate his, uh, publicity for it a little. Awesome. We can talk about this a little bit more next time as I’m sure this will develop. Uh, guys, please give this episode a like. 02:04:20 We do not show up in the search of YouTube. In fact, none of it, like, Ray, I did that, that, uh, food video and had your name in it. If you type in, Ray Pete, the video doesn’t even show up on YouTube search, which is just awesome. I love that. Um, but anyways, Ray, thank you so much. It’s always special having you on a, a sincerely appreciate Georgia Dinkov. Thank you so much, my, my partner in crime. Thank you everybody listening, uh, the audience of this show, although small is extremely, um, just interactive and always, uh, throwing out good ideas. So sincerely appreciate it engaged as the word I was looking for guys. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Ray have a safe, uh, safe time in Oregon, Eugene right now and Georgie. I’ll talk to you soon. And thank you everybody for listening. Take care, everyone. Okay. Thanks. Thank you.