Hashimoto's, Antibodies, Temperature and Pulse

00:00 So, thank you for listening to Ask You Have Dr. K. Mudi-Gubble, 91.1 FM and from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o’clock. You’re invited to call in many questions, either related or unrelated to this month’s subject of Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. And if you get time, there’s a recent newsletter that Dr. Pete has just finished on cataracts, water, aging, and light. I’m covering the theme, the ongoing theme of anti-inflammation from some things or compounds that would cause stress. So, thanks so much for joining us, Dr. Pete. As usual, if you wouldn’t mind just giving people a resume of your academic professional background, perhaps for those new listeners who might have tuned into this show. Oh, I studied biology, University of Oregon Graduate School, 1968 to 72. Did my dissertation on reproductive aging and oxidative processes concentrating on the effects of estrogen and 01:09 progesterone, largely. And trying to explain why an excess of estrogen resembled the physiology of aging, stress, or x-ray poisoning. And that was sort of a follow-up of my interest from the 1950s on the effects of low-level radiation on public health. And that’s been one of my continuing interests. Okay. So, this month, I got a little bit of a spate of people contacting us about Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. And as your specialty was hormones reproductive and thyroid, I know it’s a subject that’s very dear to your heart and something that you’ve spent many, many years studying and researching. In terms of the condition Hashimoto’s 02:15 Thyroiditis, I know you have a very different and kind of alternative view of it, and it’s certainly scientifically based. But what constitutes Hashimoto’s disease in your mind and its characteristic lab findings and the symptoms and the treatment of it, and what the temperature and pulses show, and we’ll get into temperature and pulses in a bit more detail a bit later on. But what do you view Hashimoto’s as? A hundred years ago Hashimoto described it as an enlargement of the thyroid gland caused by infiltration of white blood cells. And some people actually stick a needle into the gland and diagnose on the basis of how he described it that long ago. But the general principle is that it’s an enlarged gland that doesn’t produce enough 03:18 hormone. And so you can make a guess as to its cause by looking at the blood. If you see that there seems to be a deficiency of the hormone in the blood and maybe some evidence of inflammation, such as proteins and antibodies to the proteins from the thyroid gland, then they don’t bother doing the needle biopsy. So those two particular tests are the only real thing that medical doctors will be wanting to see as a confirmation? Yeah, simultaneously a little before Hashimoto’s study, people were seeing various reasons for the enlargement of the thyroid gland. Various poisonings or iodine deficiency was recognized 04:23 as the main cause of enlargement. And being in Japan, I suppose, was why Hashimoto saw the peculiar inflammation of the thyroid rather than blinking it on an iodine deficiency. Because many people in Japan eat so much iodine that they get thyroiditis from blocking the functions of the gland. And that classically results in increasing the TSH to overcome the blockage by excess iodine. But exactly the same TSH excess is produced by a deficiency of iodine. So what you see typically is a rising TSH driving the gland to work harder as the organism shows signs of decreasing thyroid function. 05:26 Right. Okay, so in terms of the antibodies, how does the traditional medical diagnosis then differ in terms of the way that you would, because I understand that both the antibodies that are looked at, the antithyroglobulin antibody and the antithyroid peroxidase antibodies, which are generally measured to give a diagnosis, that these are actually present in people that don’t have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. So people can actually have raised levels of these antibodies and not be showing any symptoms at all, and conversely. And the identity of an antibody isn’t really as clear as a lot of people assume. They’ve found that there’s a great cross reaction between thyroid antibodies and joint antibodies. And that explains why people with thyroiditis and hypothyroidism so often have arthritis 06:33 and joint problems. And the whole issue of explaining disease as blaming it on the immune system attacking the body, if you wrench your knee and sort of damage the cartilage, they’ve done experiments in rabbits, taking a piece of foreign cartilage like for Macau, and it will produce very few antibodies in the rabbit, but if you twist it a little bit, structurally damage it, then it produces a terrific immune reaction. And any organ that gets drained or overworked tends to leak some of its proteins and the immune system’s function largely is to clean up any mess. In fact, there is an alternative interpretation 07:37 of what the immune system is doing rather than looking for foreign invading pathogens. This theory says it’s primarily cleaning up messes caused by anything which is pathogenic. In one of the so-called autoimmune brain conditions, people have demonstrated that the presence of the antibody to the brain tissue accelerates the recovery. So cleaning up the mess is really constructive rather than always being the cause of deterioration. I’ve heard it’s a little bit off base at the moment to mention this, but I just thought I’d need to bring it up because it has a relevance to what you’re saying about antibodies not being a bad thing. You’ve mentioned before, for example, a condition hepatitis C. Number one, it’s questionable. I know you’ve questioned even the existence of it as a virus in its own 08:43 right, but you say that the antibodies that are generally measured to show the degree of severity of the way the medical industry looks at it is actually a bad way of looking at it because actually the antibodies to it are very important in mopping up the damage, if you like. Yeah, that’s Dewsburg’s basic objection to the whole AIDS HIV theory, but it applies to the hepatitis C at least as much as to HIV. Right, and that the initial insult perhaps to the liver, whether it be through poofa or radiation or any other external stresses in its own right, may well… Decades ago the Egyptian government had a campaign to give a very toxic drug to the whole population because of a parasite that were eliminating, and that poison causes liver 09:46 damage and now a tremendous proportion, roughly half of the Egyptian population I think it was showed evidence of hepatitis C, but I think it’s just the after-effect of that poisoning. Right, I remember you saying that and exactly what you’re talking about in terms of that. Okay, well you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMU-D Galbavel, 91.1 FM. From 7.30 to the end of show at 8 o’clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s subject of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. I also got to say that generally we open the lines at 7.30, but it is the pledge and at 7.30 the pledge is going to be pitching the drive at 7.30, so what I wanted to say was in case people are anxious that they’re not going to get enough time, we can pretty much open the lines any time from now on. So Dr. Pete, I know you mentioned the antibodies not being that relevant and in some ways not seemingly being a bad thing in other conditions, but so far as Hashimoto’s and its treatment, 10:52 do you always look at it as the necessity is to get the TSH down, the thyroid-stimulating hormone down, which is normally quite elevated in Hashimoto’s? Yeah, it’s well established lately, last several years, that TSH itself causes many of the symptoms blamed on hypothyroidism. It acts on the bone marrow and many other tissues to deliver, producing, increasing the inflammatory cytokine chemicals. So in itself it’s a basic problem of hypothyroidism I think. Right, because you’ve always said that TSH in its own right is a chaperone for other immune or inflammatory molecules and so in an normal healthy person it’s a good idea to try and get the TSH as close to zero as possible. Does it have any benefits? I mean apart from stimulating the production or release of thyroid hormone? 11:56 My newsletter on osteoporosis a couple years ago went over the arguments that they were using to say that it prevents osteoporosis, but I think the references that I give in there show that basically it’s just increasing the load of inflammation. Okay, so in terms of the standard medical treatment for Hashimoto’s I think it’s probably true enough to say that thyroxin is the main compound that they will give to a person to treat it. Yes, if they give enough there have been some studies in which the antibodies tend to disappear after about six months of keeping the TSH under control. Okay, so in your opinion because I know we’ve seen quite a few people that have been previously treated with thyroxin that were not getting a lot of symptom relief. I mean in terms of 13:00 the compound what do you think of its efficacy or its ability to do its job? In itself in almost every situation we’ll suppress the TSH even though T3 can do it and sometimes maybe two or three percent of the people need T3 to work on the pituitary to suppress the TSH, but women in particular have five or ten times as much thyroid disease as men and the reason is that estrogen interferes with the liver’s ability to convert thyroxin to the active T3 hormone and if your liver isn’t producing some T3, your gland which produces a ratio of about three parts of thyroxin to one part of the active hormone. 14:00 If you give that person big doses of thyroxin you’re going to turn off that little bit of active hormone coming out of their thyroid gland when you suppress the TSH and they’ll go into an increasingly hypothyroid state and that has caused a lot of doctors to think of people being simultaneously hypothyroid and hyperthyroid which doesn’t make sense unless you see that they’re interfering with the liver’s ability to activate the hormone. Some people have argued that one of the needs for TSH is to induce the local enzymes in the various tissues such as the liver which do the conversion, but there have been several 15:01 studies showing that you don’t, absolutely don’t need the TSH to do that activation of the deiodinase enzymes in the various tissues that other signals from other glands will maintain the activating enzymes. Okay, so in terms of someone presenting with Hashimoto’s you’re saying that it is reasonable to assume that thyroxin in its own right would be the treatment of choice? Well, yeah, especially in men, but since women are the main people who have Hashimoto’s it’s very likely to bring on symptoms. It’s very reasonable to try it, but as soon as they start getting symptoms of worse hypothyroidism then it’s time to give them the complete thyroid hormone. 16:02 Okay, and that’s like you said it’s because of the estrogen. I know your most recent newsletter, the cataract newsletter, has a lot to deal with estrogen being a pro-inflammatory stress mediating chemical that attenuates the effects of other things in the body. Yeah, the industry is periodically creating new myths about estrogen and one of the things they’re currently pushing. Several years ago they went through a way of claiming that estrogen was an antioxidant, even though it’s primarily an oxygen-wasting pro-oxidative mediator. Now they’re pushing the idea that estrogen is anti-inflammatory. We do actually have a caller on the air, Dr. Pete, so perhaps we should take this, I’m sorry to cut in there, 17:03 but there’s a caller, so let’s see if we can get this next one on air. Hi, you’re on air, and where are you calling from? Hi, I’m calling from New Jersey. Okay, you’re on air, so go ahead. Hi there. I just read the Broda Barnes book and hypothyroidism, The Unsuspected Illness. My entire medical history is in that book, so I’m very grateful that you provided that information. I am having a little bit of trouble. I know how to follow instructions. He suggests that we put the thermometer under our arm for 10 minutes before we get out of bed in the morning. In other words, it’s a resting temperature, and I did that. I averaged over an 18-day period, 96.4, but that’s not what my goal in telling you this. I started to get creative after I did that, and maybe that’s my mistake. I don’t know. I started to put the thermometer under my arm again 18:06 for 10-minute subsequent 10-minute increments, and I found that the mercury was continuing to rise. Even though 97, for example, is still low, but it’s higher than 96.4, or sometimes it’s 95.8 or something. I guess what I’m wondering is, I really want to find a way of accurately gauging my temperature, and hopefully thereby my metabolic rate, so that I don’t, when I start to treat myself, flip over into grave disease. Have I just wasted time? Should I just revert to Dr. Barnes’s temperature test and go back to the 10 minutes, or should I experiment with this a little bit, if you or me? No, it would be good if you could do it for half an hour or whatever it takes to 19:06 stabilize, but the trouble is that hypothyroid people have low tissue metabolism, and that often goes with a high adrenaline, which cuts off circulation to your skin, fingers, toes, keeps the circulation going primarily to your brain, heart, lungs, and so especially if you are overweight, the skin and subcutaneous fat can take a couple of hours to reach core temperature, if you’re thoroughly insulated. So it’s good to check your ear drum temperature, mouth temperature, as well as your armpit temperature while noticing the temperature of your fingers and toes and tip of your nose. Is there a significant difference in a basal temperature thermometer? I mean, 20:12 they have these separate thermometers called basal thermometers. What is that? They’re just marked off so you can read them more easily and tense, but I don’t think the small differences are that important for the thyroid guesswork. If you notice that your oral temperature is at all low and your fingers and toes are colder than other peoples, that’s a good sign that your metabolic rate is low, and if you consider the amount of calories you need per day compared to other people, that’s a good indication of your thyroid metabolic rate, and that the amount of water that you evaporate is a very good indicator. A person should take in two quarts more fluid than they lose per day in urine. That two quarts would be an average 21:17 evaporation if your thyroid is good, but many people evaporate less than a quarter day, meaning that they’re waterlogged. Instead of being evaporated, the low thyroid person tends to retain water, and there are so many indications other than temperature. I first started applying Barnes’s Technique one hot, humid summer in Eugene when it was about 95 degrees, and even people who could hardly move, they were so hypothyroid, were very close to normal temperature, and I realized that a squash sitting on the counter would show a normal metabolic rate if you went just by temperature. So checking your pulse rate and the temperature of your fingers and toes in a cool 22:22 room, those are more sensitive indicators. I remember you writing that if people use an electric blanket at night, you place less value on the basal temperature. Am I remembering correctly? Yeah, same thing as in a hot, humid climate. If you keep the temperature up artificially, even a dead person will be warm. Oh, well, this is actually bad news for me because I’m in an heated room when I’m doing this. My temperature may be even lower. I don’t want to take up too much of your time, but I think what you’re saying is it’s more perhaps more of an art than a science in some respect. Just because getting an absolute gauge on this is going to be very difficult because there are so many variables. Am I approximating what you’re saying? Exactly. It’s the whole function. The best single test would be how much oxygen you breathe in and how much carbon dioxide 23:32 you exhale. That’s actually showing what’s going on chemically. You can’t produce a normal amount of carbon dioxide by being overstressed or high-end estrogen. Other things will happen other than producing carbon dioxide as you burn your fuel. So the old-fashioned 1930s basal metabolic rate by breathing oxygen and blowing out carbon dioxide, that was the real thyroid test. The temperature is just the very rough approximation of how much fuel you’re burning. Where can I go to read more about what you just said? I think my website… Something I can do at home? Yeah, my website has several articles about it. Something else you have to do is notice the changes during the day because low thyroid people typically compensate 24:39 with stress hormones increasing. Sometimes mainly adrenaline, sometimes mostly cortisol, others, including serotonin, will increase especially at night. Histamine often increases at night. All of the stress hormones make your tissue metabolize but not in an energy-producing way but an energy-wasting way. If you take an overdose of cortisol and adrenaline, the adrenaline will make your skin get cold. The cortisol will make you break down your muscle tissue and glandular tissue to turn to sugar and that will heat your body up. Some people wake up with a 98 or 99 degree temperature but then when they eat breakfast by 10 or 11 in the morning, 25:44 their temperature might have fallen to 94 or 95 degrees. This explains a great deal for me personally so I thank you very, very much. I don’t want to take up any more of your time but that’s been very helpful. All right, well thank you so much for your call. We are actually going to get into the whole subject of temperature and pulse measurements and what the differences mean. Dr. P, okay so that last caller that was completely out of the blue, completely impromptu, so happy they called and especially from New Jersey. Talking about temperature and pulses is actually one of the next questions that I had down to ask you during this next 25 minutes. The interpretation of a temperature and pulse shot being the questions that I have, I understand what you’re saying about the metabolic rate, peripheral temperatures, sweating and CO2 versus O2 as being better indicators. In terms of what’s practical for people to do at home, I think the 26:44 temperature and pulse sheet is the thing that people can get their hands on to see for themselves whether or not they’re reaching proper temperature or if they are cold or if the temperatures are dropping. So can I just go through a couple of the things that commonly show up in people’s temperature and pulse shots and just get you to describe the basic metabolic defect if you’d like. So if someone has, and I don’t see this too often, but a high starting temperature in the morning when they’re in bed before they get out of bed and then they have the breakfast and the temperature falls? The first time I started noticing that was a friend who twice a year alternated episodes of extreme depression and mania and in the periods when she was giving up sleep, sleeping only two or three hours a night, her morning temperatures were extremely high, but then after eating something 27:51 of two or three hours later, they would fall several degrees and that was during the time when she tended to be manic and be under the influence of too much adrenaline and other excitatory things. And so I suggested that she take enough thyroid to get her pulse and temperature to be steadier during the day and within a few days she had stabilized so that her morning temperature was a couple of degrees lower but increased after eating instead of decreasing. And since doing that, she stopped having her annual up and down cycles. Okay, so just on the recap of what you said a little while ago about cold peripheries, so fingers, toes, nose, ears, if this kind of person that you just mentioned would have 28:52 cold extremities because that would be, adrenaline would be driving that as a vasoconstrictor, but yet their core temperature would be high because of cortisol and the stress hormones? In general, and you have to check your pulse rate at the same time because if your cortisol is extremely high and destroying things at a terrific rate, then you’re making enough heat to keep your hands and feet warm even. But in that situation your adrenaline is going to be lower to let out the heat through your skin. And so if you have a very high temperature and the normal pulse rate and then the temperature falls after you eat, your pulse rate is probably going to get slower still. Okay, so for a low starting temperature in the morning, so someone’s in bed, they’re taking their temperature in their pulses before they wake and start moving around and 29:52 generating heat. If they have a low starting temperature and that falls after breakfast. Oh, that’s still stress plus hypothyroidism. Okay, all right. And then how about if they have a low starting temperature and it doesn’t change after breakfast, it stays the same? Um, they probably didn’t eat the right things. If you get enough sugar in and protein and the essential catalytic nutrients, B vitamins and such, then if you have any function of your thyroid gland at all, you’re going to feed your liver enough that it should, just by feeding it sugar, it should start producing a little bit of T3 which would warm you. Okay, so how about the pulses then? If someone’s taking their pulse in bed in the morning 30:59 along with the temperature and they have a low pulse and then that pulse rises after breakfast? Um, that probably means that their T3 is going up from eating some carbohydrate and increasing their general energy, so their blood is circulating more. And that’s something that I’ve seen most often in women when they’re premenstrual and having high estrogen blocking their thyroid, they’ll get very cold when they get hungry and everything will slow down and then when they eat, they’ll warm up and the pulse will increase. Okay, now how about if somebody, again this is breakfast time and the person’s in bed before they move around, if they have a high pulse and then this rises after breakfast? 32:01 Oh, sometimes that happens when they eat eggs without enough carbohydrate. If you’re already tending to have hypoglycemia, eating eggs will stimulate insulin secretion, drop your blood sugar more and cause a surge of adrenaline and it depends on how you feel. If you’re really increasing your thyroid and warming your metabolism up, you’ll feel good when the pulse goes up, but if you feel like you’re about to fainter or go into shock, that happens for eating too much protein without carbohydrate. And that adrenaline makes you shaky then. Some people wake up cyclically during the night when I was counseling dieters. There were some very fat people who would wake up, one of them woke up 33:08 every hour during the night and the other one I think was sleeping an hour and a half or so. I got them to set an alarm clock to wake themselves up about five or ten minutes before they’re expected waking and to eat anything with carbohydrate, milk or juice or even a cracker or something and to do that every hour and within a week they were sleeping through the night and then they were able to start losing weight. The stress hormones that raise your temperature and pulse rate around dawn, they are also increasing the blood sugar, so in diabetics they call it the dawn phenomenon, but it’s the result of the stress hormones that rise during the night. The darkness itself is causing stress, activating hormones and so in the winter people 34:16 are more likely to have disturbed sleep because of long nights and getting extra carbohydrate late in the day can help you sleep longer without those episodes. Usually it’s nightmares waking people up with a pounding heart. One other quick question and then there is a caller, so the last example would be perhaps a high pulse that falls after breakfast. That’s good, that’s the carbohydrate lowering the adrenaline and when the temperature goes up and your pulse goes down that’s what breakfast should do. Okay let’s take this next caller. You’re on the air? Hi I’m very very sure and before I ask my question I’d just like to say to the audience, 35:18 if you love K-MUD, call 707-923-3911 or 1-800-K-MUD-RAD and to decode K-MUD-RAD, look at your dial and the decoder ring is right there on the first. I always appreciate what you do and this show is one of my favorites. My question about the peak and if it’s a little too far off, very similar to another program, is about the approaching conclusion of radiation plume. I heard Dr. Helen Caldic discussing recently on coasts, coast AM coming in June, Alaska around March and possibly the Pacific Northwest around July, June-July and then further down the coast subsequent to that. So maybe late summer, early fall of next year, I’m sorry, of this coast right now would actually be next year at this point. So it could be as much as up to a year from now but maybe less and my question goes to what are the 36:23 effects of radiation since you mentioned that especially I should be giving the program, drawing the lines of the folks that the disease mentioned earlier or what it kind of measures. I think that Japanese disease that starts with an H or does it come up in other ways and see what should we do to prevent it as far as overdialinization of the thyroid. I would like to hear and listen to your response on that and again, thank you so much. 1-800 K-MUD-RAD or 9233-1-1 in the 707 area. So please donate to the station, keep this great show going. Okay, thank you for that. I do want to say that me personally hearing it, quite a bit about sounding garbled, but I did hear the very first part of it was the concern with the radiation, oceanic radiation coming this way to the coast between the middle to the end of the next year. Dr. Pete, did you hear what that caller was saying? 37:26 Part of it was blurred but basically you’re wondering what to do for radiation exposure. Right, I think so, yeah basically. My first newsletter 30 some years ago was on radiation defense and I read everything that was available at that time regarding protecting against radiation and repairing the damage and the research since then has pretty much confirmed what was available then that keeping your metabolic rate up accelerates the repair process faster than the injury and progesterone decreases the injury, thyroid increases the rate of repair 38:26 and all kinds of stress create signals from the injured cells that travel through the rest of your body and so no matter if your face is x-rayed by a dentist your whole body the gonads are going to be affected by these substances emitted by the injured cells. So in the 1950s Russian researchers had noticed that total body irradiation had an estrogenic effect would cause animals to go into estrus and that was blamed generally on causing the pituitary hormones to be activated and people could do it just by radiating the head but the Russian researchers radiated the animal’s foot 39:31 and produced the same whole body estrogenic effect showing that estrogen and radiation are producing these toxins that communicate to all the cells of the body and that’s why thyroid and progesterone have a basic protective effect against radiation but the whole nutritional support system magnesium is the element that’s most closely involved in repairing radiation damage after your thyroid is activated the cells take up magnesium and enzymes are activated that do the repair process when you have adequate magnesium with your thyroid and that would be from the green leafy broths that you recommend yeah so 40:33 whether it’s shard or kale dark green leafy broths are pretty rich in in magnesium okay so dr p i guess i guess we can just put it out there again quickly if any other callers on the air it’s kmudrad is the toll-free number 1-800-568-3723 or the total number if you live in the area is 9233911 um so my other questions that i wanted to put to you about the temperature and the pulses with reference to temperature and pulses are the morning changes reflective of a similar metabolism seen in the lunchtime temperature and pulses um yeah if your temperature hasn’t stabilized by 10 or 11 in the morning a low thyroid person will often especially a woman with high estrogen and low progesterone the temperature and pulse rate might both fall 41:34 before lunch or they might have an adrenaline attack and have a shock sensation with a fast weak pulse and so the effect of feeding you can interpret it the same for lunch or breakfast okay so and how about if um how about if the temperature doesn’t reach 98.6 or the pulse never gets over 70 in the mid-afternoon what would how do you view that well people have have a that they’re a chronic adaptation and some people can stay very well at at those average numbers but on average people have the the greatest ability to resist stress and recuperate from injury if their temperature is a little above average 42:34 and their pulse rate is a little above average so your health can be very good for most of your life but you you will have more resilience if your metabolic rate is higher okay well that was my that was my last question if the temperature is higher than 98.6 in the afternoon and the pulse is over 100 uh the the brain and the immune system for example the optimum temperature seems to be around 101 maybe even a little higher yeah and i i’ve also mentioned you uh i’ve also remember you mentioning that the immune system is less than if you want to say the immune system as an organism functioning at 100%!b(MISSING)eing optimal if your temperature it doesn’t reach 98.6 you are not running at 100%!o(MISSING)f your immune ability probably yeah and usually you can see some evidence in your blood tests that says unnecessarily high tsh or other pituitary 43:37 hormones indicating that you’re you’re driving your endocrine system and immune system unnecessarily hard when things are are running very smoothly on the cellular level your endocrine system and immune system don’t have to do very much the tissue cells take care of things all by themselves okay well we do have another caller so i want to make sure this caller gets an opportunity to you’re on the air hello hi you’re on the air hi love the show which is um where are you calling me because i have a completely unrelated question but my mother has thyroid issues and i have temperature issues so i’ve been intently paying attention to your discussion but um can i just ask you where you’re calling from my first time listening to the show can i just ask you where you’re calling from incidentally i’m sorry to bat in i’m sorry can i just quickly ask you where you’re calling from yeah i’m calling from redway oh okay just down the road carry on carry on um so i just recently 44:39 i’ve always been a really light sleeper and i recently became hip to the idea that taking valerian tincture can improve one’s ability to relax fall asleep and stay asleep through the night and um i i grabbed myself a little bottle down at chautauqua and i’ve been taking it and it’s i’ve found that it’s really really helpful um i’ve i might my brother who also has had problems falling asleep and staying asleep has been taking it with me and we’re we’re really you know it’s it’s definitely improving our sleeping patterns and i was just wondering if you know of any possibility of of um developing a dependence on valerian or if it’s counter indicated for any other medications or if you know anything about that being a problem in in practice uh no well put it this way i know valerian works on gaba channels and dr peat will know exactly what i’m saying uh when i mentioned 45:40 gaba channels but um here’s the thing some people and it’s rare but some people get very stimulated by valerian majority of people do find a good benefit from it and it does shut off that internal dialogue that keeps people awake when they sit and talk to themselves um and especially if people wake in the early hours but i know dr peat’s interpretation of any kind of insomnia would generally be down to uh higher adrenaline or higher than normal adrenaline keeping people from entering a a deep restful sleep so dr peat what do you what do you think about uh valerian working on gaba channels and uh the the mechanism behind insomnia well that mechanism is very good it’s a very safe drug but uh i think that that uh using a drug of that sort it’s protective but it is potentially uh habit forming right and um besides my own experience when i took thyroid 46:42 being able to relax and and sleep soundly uh on one of my trips talking to uh doctors and such i ran into a a doctor who looked horrible said he hadn’t slept for three nights and uh i mentioned my experience with thyroid and gave him 10 micrograms of cytomel and the next night at my talk he pulled me aside before introducing me and said that stuff’s better than morphine dog’s pee i don’t want to cut you short but i just want to say that it is very nearly four minutes to the top of the hour um so i would unfortunately i’d want to cut you short here and just thank you very much for being on the radio show and that would give me plenty of time to tell people how to find you uh and um more about you so thanks so much for joining us tonight okay thank you okay so uh dr raymond p has a pretty uh extensive website with an exhaustive list of researched 47:46 scientific based articles fully referenced on many different uh conditions disorders uh and a lot of what he is uh espousing is very alternative but is very scientifically backed so it’s not um it’s not completely uh made up at all it’s it’s science that’s been buried if you like and it’s not really being listened to too much but a lot of what he has said has been vindicated very recently i just want to quickly mention the whole thing about vitamin d in england and the british medical journal stating that the saturated fats were now no longer the bad guys and that the polyunsaturates which is what dr p has always said are actually the cause of inflammation and disease and they’re having a complete rethink on the whole saturated fat thing again with the vitamin d it’s a very good helpful protective molecule and uh so yeah raymond p’s website is w w w dot ray p t r a y p e a t dot com uh go check him out and uh we can also be reached monday through friday uh during normal business hours and our toll free number is you know i 48:53 hardly ever use it it’s one eight eight eight nine two six four three seven two uh we can be reached for consultations anytime or for further information uh during normal business hours so two or two minutes or thereabouts for top of the hours k mud is the station that you heard this on it’s a great alternative station it’s a beacon in the dark folks it’s like a red light on the hill and unless you want to just hear standard radio stations giving standard information out um help support this radio station folks because it means a lot and especially in this very tight knit community i would all hope that the people here value it enough to put their hands in their pockets and give them some money uh to make sure that we all keep going on into the next year anyway until december uh third friday of december as always the third friday of every month uh have a great night i enjoy this wonderful fall before we get the imminent brain and thanks so much for listening