Ray Peat, Bud Weiss, and Misha Sakharoff on CO2, Keto, etc.

00:00 Okay, and Misha, because you know how to do this really well, this is a Zoom recording, so you know how all of that works. We did it once together when you were showing me things. So Dr. Peep, I would like to have Misha just kind of go over a bit what he’s been doing and the aspect specifically, most specifically, of how you use, how Misha, you use the ketogenic diet as a part of what you do. I know it’s not the be all and end all by any means, it’s the breathing piece, because Misha has become a really, a warrior in terms of getting people’s breathing in good shape, partially mentored by Arter Rakimov, another friend and colleague of mine. So I wanted to give him credit. So Misha, why don’t you go ahead and kind of Dr. Peep a little bit of the idea and then Dr. Peep, after he has, if you would sort of, maybe you have some questions or some remarks, that would be great. And I will attempt to keep from sticking my nose in here too much, so that the talk in. 01:02 Okay, and then afterwards, Dr. Peep, I want to get that diet. We were talking about, Misha, we were talking about how Dr. Peep, many, many, he’s a become an expert on how to have a good nutritional diet based on his research. For how much a day back to Pete, would you say? Well, for, in Mexico, on Lake College, it was about $15 a day. $15 a day? No, I mean a month, 15 a month, 15 paces a day. Yeah, and so, yeah, but that was back before you were born, Misha. It would be hard to do it right now to do the same. Who knows, I don’t know, but we’ll find out. Okay, so take it away, Misha, and kind of go for it, Dr. Peep, whatever questions you have at any time, please jump in. Well, it’s a very big pleasure to join in 02:04 in a conversation with you, Dr. Ubud, and well, I’m very, very interested in human, in physiology, and I’m not a doctor, I’m not a medical professional, and I’m not a specialist, per se, but I am more, I try to see at the, at the healing as an engineer. So I try to kind of combine different concepts. And what I come to through my limited experience now is that I see at the, I made a kind of a model of human healing that I use to my patients, to my clients. And that is, if I may explain, that is a pentagram, 03:10 actually, the pentagram, which consists of the five star, the five, start with five ends, and there’s two groups of ends. If you know the Vitruvian man, you remember what it is, it was the Leonardo da Vinci, the drawing of the Vitruvian man, you remember? The circle and the star in it, and the man standing in the star. It’s called the Vitruvian man. And I’m talking about energy acquisition from the environment, to optimize energy acquisition to the body, and then to optimize energy distribution in the body. And in the five star, energy acquisition 04:12 is the two main sources, is the energy acquisition from the food, macronutrients, and micronutrients, and then acquisition from the air, that’s oxygenation on the cellular level. That’s energy acquisition, and energy distribution, that’s a modal, we have acquisition here from the hands, and then energy distribution, I base it as the triangle, and I call it the triangle of resilience. And the top of the triangle, that’s the mental resilience, and then the base here and here, that’s the physical and immune resilience. So my idea is that when we, all the five parts, they are interconnected and interdependent. They are, the pentagram is actually a mesh. So I base my exercise on what I call multi-purpose exercise. If I take a physical part, then I can connect it to all the four others. 05:20 And I make the exercise, for example, a physical exercise, it’s always a movement, it’s a structural movement. And the structural movement, I can connect and explain how it works on immunity, on mental side, on breathing, and actually also on nutrition, and on digestion. And the same with five stars. And the digestion has the very central role in it. And what I use is the ketogenic nutrition, because I tried myself many different kinds of diets. I tried to be vegetarian, and I tried to do paleo, paleo, and I tried just to eat everything also. A holistic diet. And I found out that first on myself, 06:23 that’s the, because I do a lot of sports, I found out the ketogenic, I never do bunking, I never go hypoglycemic, never. And it was really interesting, because I used to always, to take on court with me, I play tennis every day, almost every day now. I used to play every day. I used to start my day at seven o’clock on tennis court, two times a week with the trainer, and three times a week for matches, playing matches. And I always had chocolate, I always have a different kind of glucose things, and I always been, I always, I used to start morning, eating a very big breakfast, and then going on court, and stopping after half an hour, 14 minutes, and get something, glucose or something, because I was really, was like, bonking, 07:28 because it’s, I run a lot, and I always play singles, and in the singles you move a lot and use a lot of energy, when you’re playing on a certain level. So I found out that in ketogenic, I used to have a very short nutritional window, of like, I eat first time at 12 o’clock, and last time at five o’clock. With time it gets, it got smaller and smaller. So now, for example, I eat last time, at five o’clock in the daytime, and then I play tennis, for example, next morning at seven o’clock, not having eaten anything. And I have plenty of energy. I’m never bonking, I eat the first time at 12 o’clock, when I come home, I’m not hungry, and that’s a very special thing, actually. 08:29 I like this way of eating a lot, and I see on my clients, that is working perfect, and the, well, my clients, they have cancer, they have diabetes, they have asthma, and all the kind of disease that is based on systemic inflammation. Misha, could you be a little bit more specific about how you do the ketogenic diet, the specifics of what you’re recommending and using? Yes, sure, sure, what I’m recommending and using, it’s the, for myself, it’s not the same macronutrient ratios that are, I use for my clients. For my clients, I use something called therapeutic ketosis, and therapeutic ketosis is defined 09:31 as 90, 8.5, 1.5. 90%!o(MISSING)f energy coming from fat, 8.5%!o(MISSING)f energy coming from protein, and 1.5 coming from carbs. That’s the ketogenic, and what I use, the model called KetoIFCR, or therapeutic ketosis, with intermittent fasting and caloric restriction. Caloric restriction is defined as 75%!o(MISSING)f BMR, basal metabolic rate, and it can be a little bit different from person to person. For example, when I work with a chronic fatigue syndrome with ME, it’s the most difficult, as I see, the most difficult of all illnesses, of all, as I experience it. It’s very, very hard, 10:33 it’s very hard to gain energy in this, and well, intermittent fasting means reducing your eating window, or nutritional window, and the idea behind that is that we try to trigger autophagy, and especially this kind of autophagy that is called CMA, chaperone-mediated autophagy, and chaperone-mediated autophagy, that’s a cellular cleaning of the intracellular fluid of proteins, so the cells are digesting themselves, the contains of themselves air, and that’s what claims, or you call it whatever, 11:38 but it’s called autophagy, and that’s very healthy for the human cells, and it starts about 10 hours after the last food in the stomach, the new food, as I understand. So in order to have the cells as long time as possible in this autophagy state, we reduce nutritional window. Okay, Misha, could you stop right there for a moment? Dr. Pete, any reactions or questions so far? What particular kinds of protein and fat would you use? Well, I use mostly proteins, 12:42 mostly animal proteins, different kinds of proteins, we use meat, fat, meat, I use, well, avocado, there’s some protein there, what else, butter, but mostly that’s animal protein, and the fats, it’s saturated fats, mostly because the most stable fats, and then we use mono-unsaturated, and try to avoid polyunsaturated fat as much as possible. What proportion between meat, eggs, milk, cheese, seafood? You see, I don’t do so much, 13:47 I don’t define the proportion very much because I try to establish this diet very much together with a client in order to fit the, because we want to establish the process actually. The hardest thing in all of that is to see from the helicopter view and from the helicopter view in order to establish the change, the lifestyle change, we need to establish very strong process. And for me to see if I want, I normally have my clients for a year, like half a year to a year, we work together until they are okay and then they can go in maintenance, in maintenance we don’t work together as constantly, like every day, like I do from the start. So to establish the process is very, very crucial 14:49 and I want them to eat the food that they prefer, they like, so that it has a very big value here. So some of them prefer more seafood, some of them prefer more, you know, meat and different kind of vegetables, so it’s a little bit different. I try to tell them that seafood has some special, specific kind of micronutrients that they need, but some of them don’t like seafood for example, some of them don’t like fat meat, so it’s always, it’s a different from person to person. I try to stick mostly to macronutrient breakdown and go from there and very, very slowly, 15:54 introduce new foods so they get very kind of, very different kind of foods, I really want them to try different kind of foods and some people that have eating disorders, it’s a very, very hard thing to do because they don’t want to try new things, they just don’t want, they refuse. And sometimes when they are at my place, I do, I love cooking and I actually try to show them very, very fast how to do some different things and combine, just put the color, eat, eat, try this, try that. Sometimes it happens that it works, but it’s hard. Misha, would it be useful to show a chart of one of your patients, would that be possible? Yes. So Dr. Pete can see, you know, the kind of extraordinary tracking that you do with people 16:57 on all levels and maybe speak about that. Sure. Let me start just a second. I’ll share my screen. Yes, let me see how we share the screen, just a second. Last time you did it yourself, I didn’t do anything. I’ll try, I’ll try here. No, just a second. 18:05 Should I hit share screen or not? Oh, start share here. Yeah, I found it. Okay. Can you see it? Can you see the screen? Yes. Can you see the screen? Okay. So you see that’s the online file that I have with each of my clients where we work every day. And as you see, there’s something called journal. You see there’s a different, how do you call it, in the Excel chart, Excel sheet, the different spreadsheets. This one is called journal. In this journal, we have all our meetings. And I write the program for the next day, or next week. 19:10 What kind of thing we are doing. And so next one is called breathing log. And the breathing log, I’ll show you. In the breathing log, we have a different kind of training. The red fields, you see the red columns called FR. This is a fall off training. There’s with a breathing, breathing retraining with a fall off device. That’s the device. Dr. Pete, did you have you heard about fall off device, the breathing device? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I sent you that. I sent you, you know, a summary of that. A person that Dr. Pete had worked with who use the fall off. Yes, I remember that’s right. And Dr. Pete, I do it myself. I do the device myself. 20:12 I don’t use the original fall off device. I do the device myself and I will show you how it looks. Like just a second. And it’s easy to make these Dr. Pete. I can, if you want, you can make one yourself. And it’s actually probably. A good thing to use if Catherine wants to use it. I know she was wanting to use the, the mask. Michelle also uses the mask, but he uses it mostly when he’s exercising. Okay. Now I try to stop sharing just a second. Stop here. 21:13 The device looks like that. That’s the. Oh my God. You’re really wow. The reason I said wow is because when you make it like he’s making it, it’s a huge amount of CO2. He’s almost, he’s getting somewhere around 2%!.(MISSING) No, no, no, no. This is the smallest one. That’s not mine. That’s my girlfriends. I’m at my girlfriend. That’s still. Mine is two liter. This one is a 14. 14. What I’m saying, Dr. Pete, is that by using this and breathing this way, he’s getting upwards of 2%!C(MISSING)O2. He’s breathing. The difference is in the fall of device, we have only one possibility to adjust. And that’s the amount of water used. We don’t have other possibilities. In this device, we have three possibilities. We have a possibility to change the diameter here. 22:19 The smaller the diameter, the bigger the resistance. We have the possibility to change the length of the, how do you call it? Tube. Of the tube. I also sometimes I do the, the tube with two diameters. So I put a smaller diameter in, in this one. So we can actually do the different resistance. When we do the, when we take the standard, the standard, how do you call this? The cap. The standard cap, then we can change the, how the, the different kind of bottles. You have to see that that’s open at the end. The bottle is open at the end. The bottle is open in the end here. And actually the fourth thing is, if we do the bottle here, not clean cut, but a cut that is not clean, then we can also adjust the resistance. 23:21 And then the container. This container, that’s the big container, the big container. So the amount of water can be very different. And this, the fifth thing is, then when we train it, we can close the container. So the amount of the air that it comes and blends with the CO2 in the container, get minimized. Actually that’s a five levels of, of adjustment. Okay, I shut, I, I do the, again, the share. And that’s, that’s the red column called Frolov. And you see, Dr. Pete, if I take the column, you see FR1, you see this? And what it actually says, that two, six, I made my tables in the way that you can see 24:26 the explanations of all the fields. You see, Frolov, do it yourself, device exercise. Respiration cycle is a, a respiration cycle ending average, inhale to exhale ratio in seconds. A healthy adult should be able to go 20, 30 minutes. Why is it there, for example, okay? So here, we started with two eight, it means with two inhale, two second inhale, eight, second exhale. And you see the column. Excuse me, is that with the nose closed or with the nose open? Because it’s much harder. It’s only with the nose closed. So you’re breathing through the, like that, through the nose closed. Yes, yes, yes, everything with the nose closed. Because it’s much, much harder with the nose closed because you’re really intensifying the CO2 that way. Yeah, you see the average is taking, because he’s doing, this guy has cancer, 25:28 this guy have chronic lymphatic leukemia. And he started, you see this column B with purple, purple in purple, the second column, it’s showing the average values for the day of exhalation. Because what we do, we go down to two and two seconds inhalation, it will remain like that for months. So inhalation is always at two. And then we just extend exhalation. And you see what happens, we started making this, we started working in April and I introduced him to Frolov device in June because he was started doing other butteco exercise. And you see here in November, his values are 35. So he’s doing 235. Okay? Some other values, you see… Excuse me, that means his exhale is 35 seconds long? 26:32 Yes, 35 seconds, yes. And he do the exercise for one and a half hour a day. That means he’s breathing… Three times, three times a half an hour. Alright, so he’s breathing less than, almost less than one liter of air per minute. Yes, he’s breathing a very, very little. You see, then we have, you see all these yellow columns. And yellow columns, it’s a column about sleep hacking. All of these values, that’s about sleep hacking. We have evening pause, we have evening control pause, we have the amount of hours of sleep, we have the waking hour, then we have morning pause, we have morning control pause, and we have maximum pause. All of these things are described the quality of sleep and the improvement of quality of sleep. What do you mean by sleep hacking? Sleep hacking means that we try to improve the sleep 27:35 because in the sleep we gain a lot of energy. And by hacking the sleep, we can change, really we can speed up the process of recovery. Okay, let’s stop for a minute and see if Dr. Pete has some questions or some comments. Do you check the temperature occasionally? Body temperature? Body temperature, actually not. I knew you would ask this one. Yes, no. But I will talk about you about thermogenesis and thermic equilibrium. It’s very, very interesting. It’s one of the things that you are, you give a lot of inspiration. And I actually work with generating brown fat. But I’ll tell you how. Yes. 28:37 No, not measuring temperature. No. But maybe I should do that. What about their pulse temperature, pulse rate before and after the breathing sessions? Do you see a change of pulse rate? Yes, yes, yes. There’s always a pulse rate of the different. A pulse falls after a breathing exercise. But it’s very, very different. It depends on kind of exercise. Because you see there’s a lot of exercise my clients doing of exercise on full exertion. With a making diminished breathing when we actually work on what I call progressive active relaxation. And progressive active relaxation, that’s a breathing retraining based on relaxation of diaphragm on progressive relaxation and active it means in movement. And on this exercise, it’s very often the pulse is sometimes 29:43 the same, sometimes the same. Sometimes it falls, sometimes it gets a little bit higher, but a little bit. But this is a very, very good exercise. But what I see after this exercise, the control pause skyrockets. Yes. But the pulse, it’s not always reacting as in the breathing exercise while sitting. It’s a little bit different. I have a particular interest. I don’t want to make this go on too long because I do. We can do this again sometime and go pick up from here. I’ll send you both a copy of the video. But I wanted to get back into, for my own particular reason, the how you use the ketogenic diet because I, as Dr. Peters, you pointed out, there are some possible significant problems with the ketogenic diet. And maybe you want to mention some of those Dr. Pete and then 30:48 I’ll get back to you. I’m sure you could sort of indicate how you either deal with that or, or, or whatever. So Dr. Pete, do you want to go ahead then and I’ll get back to, Amisha, get us off that screen and back onto the regular screen. Yeah. I think the problem is when you go into a lower state of depression or excess reductive condition, reductive stress, alcohol poisoning can do the same thing. But some people on a high fat diet go in the same direction as if they had used alcohol. And that means that they’re not oxidizing as fast as they should. So everything shifts the ketones that are being produced. 31:51 They talk about the ketone ratio, acetoacetate and beta hydroxybutyrate. But hydroxybutyrate isn’t really a ketone. And so it’s the non ketone which shows a reductive stress state if it’s too high. And so the, if something is going wrong and you’re tending to make lactate out of your proteins, breaking down your proteins too fast instead of living on your pure fat, that’s where it becomes catabolic to the protein rather than just producing energy from fat. How would the issues about prolactin, estrogen and cortisol 32:54 play in this process? I think those are the ones that rise when you’re in reductive stress. And it would show up in the blood as a rise in lactate and a decrease in bicarbonate and carbon dioxide, as well as a shift from acetoacetate dominance to a relatively high beta ketone butyrate. Now it seems to me, Misha, just in following what Dr. Pete’s saying, that the breathing that you’re having these people do ends up protecting them enormously and healing. So my concern was that it seems possible, and this is what I was wanting to point towards, 33:56 is that it’s possible that the diet, that is the ketogenic diet, may be assisting in some ways, but I think that the intensity of the breathing, which is way beyond anything that any of our colleagues do. I mean, maybe Arctur does some of it, but you’re the leader in terms of really pushing people that way, which is what Butteco did too, the cold water dousing, which you talked about, you wanted to talk about a little bit about the thermo, the thermic effect. But it’s the huge shift in maintenance of carbon dioxide. Do you get blood levels for carbon dioxide and carbonic acid? What do you mean? Do they get their blood gases done? Yes, yes, sure. I wanted to show you all the sheets. 34:58 That’s one of the 10 sheets. That’s only one of the 10 sheets. We have these sheets with blood work too. Yeah, so I’m just saying that my sense is that the big thing that’s making all the difference, because Butteco was able to cure cancers. Sasha Stalmotsky kept telling me that they had done this, they had done that, and I just never had seen it, because I never saw anybody do what you’re doing. But Butteco did. He pushed people to that level. But you see, the idea is here that what I really want to promote is, I hate the word holistic because it’s really used in some UH aspects that I not always like, but it’s really holistic. I want to promote the holistic view that we have to work. If we really want to make a change that will last, we have to both work with diet, with group, which are the main sources of energy, as I see. 36:04 And then we have to also work with the distribution, with the optimization of distribution of energy, with the physical movement, structured movement, and with immunity, and then not manual, you know, a lymph drain, but actually with lymph drain in movement. That’s what I incorporate in all the movement exercises. Yes, the consciousness about how lymph works, and how immunity works. And we can really create a very, very strong synergetic effect by combining these works in one multipurpose exercise. That’s what I really believe. And using a process knowledge, how to establish a strong process, I call it, it’s a kaizen. It’s a kaizen idea of making a progress with very, very small steps. And that makes a very strong lifestyle change. 37:06 Let’s go back to you, Dr. Pete. Most of what Misha is talking about in terms of the exercise, the mental attitude, the rebreathing, training, the intensity of it, I’m totally on board with that. The problem, based on what I have a problem is, the notion that the ketogenic diet is really, as you’re doing it, is as useful as a better understanding of the kind of thermodynamic focus on functional and process, functional and structural, from the standpoint of Dr. Pete. So maybe Dr. Pete, you could speak to that a little bit in terms of how you use things like orange juice and milk, in particular, and eggs, as a way of the input of energy, Dr. Pete’s written this beautiful piece about Pavlov, 38:09 and most people don’t even know that. Pavlov’s exploration of food was a tremendous piece part of his work, which most people don’t even really know about. So Dr. Pete, could you speak to that a little bit, please? The thing that got me interested in the ketones was reading about the New Guineans who live essentially on potatoes. 51 weeks of the year, they live on potatoes, and then one week they feast on pork, and their protein balance was measured, and there didn’t seem to be enough protein in the potatoes to maintain such good physique. And they found that their intestine was, the ordinary E. coli in the intestine were nitrogen fixing, 39:14 and so they were catching nitrogen out of the air, combining it with something in the potatoes to be equivalent to the normal 78-gram requirement for proteins for maintaining good health. So I wondered for a couple of years what it was in the potatoes that could be protein equivalent, and it turns out that it’s the keto acids equivalent to the amino acids. All you have to do is find ammonia fixed nitrogen and add it to the keto acids, and then you get the essential amino acids. So it happened right around that time. Nature Path’s sister was wasting away. 40:15 She had gone down from 135 pounds to 65 pounds and looked like a skeleton. Her thighs literally were no bigger around than my wrists, and she was five feet six or seven tall. And she demonstrated eating, and she ate some scrambled eggs, and she tried to eat a high-protein diet because of her wasting condition. Her Nature Path brother had tried to run a variety of diets, and she kept wasting. And right after, as she was just finishing a big plate of, I think it was ham and eggs, she burped and the room filled with ammonia. She said that always happens after eating, 41:16 especially eating protein. That made me suddenly remember the New Guineans who were nitrogen fixing in their intestines. And so I had a fruit juicer. I sliced up some raw potatoes, put them through this centrifugal juicer, and a slimy, translucent liquid came out, like egg white. And I scrambled that like scrambled eggs. And so it was somewhat a protein-y mixture, but it had everything that the potato contained. And she ate that and didn’t burp and seemed comfortable eating it. For a few days, she juiced many pounds of potatoes and scrambled them. 42:17 And she was eating everything without a problem, and she started gaining weight. And just as quickly as that, she was recovered. And next time I heard from her, she was at work weighing her normal 135 pounds. But we never figured… What was her condition? We never found out. She had been to many doctors who couldn’t diagnose anything. She had a strange moving lump that looked like maybe it was her pantry, sticking up to the left of her stomach, like there was spasms in her intestine. But the main thing was that she burped ammonia every time she ate. And that just stopped immediately on the first potato meal. Interesting. So that got me interested in the keto acids. But then I saw studies on coconut oil 43:20 that the more coconut oil they fed the rats, the leaner they were. So the high-fat, low-fat, and medium-fat diets, if it was average, unsaturated fat, they got fatter in proportion to how much fat they ate, but still they were all very fat rats. The ones that ate lots of coconut oil were the leanest rats. So a high-fat diet made them lean and healthy. And I experimented on myself, found that I could lose weight just by adding coconut oil to my regular diet. We use a lot of coconut oil with my work. I use a lot of coconut oil, yes. I do also for cleansing, oil pooling with my clients, 44:21 oil pooling both morning and evening. It does something to increase the metabolic rate. I think it’s diluting the stored poofa, stored on polyunsaturated, which I think acts as a break on the metabolism. So just like a fat lawyer was in a hurry. He said, well, if it’ll help me lose weight, I’ll drink a cup of it. And he said he thought he almost caught fire. He was so hot. A couple of people have said that when they drank approaching a cup, they felt dangerously overheated. But sometimes we would make a batch of ice cream consisting of about 40%!c(MISSING)oconut oil. And we could each drink, eat a cup of that at a sitting 45:23 without overheating because we had been doing it gradually. So I think it’s a matter of adjusting to a higher metabolic level. And thinking about the difference between the keto acid equivalents of the protein and the fat metabolism, which can produce some ketones. RL Tvech did research back around 1970, 68, 70, 72. Excuse me, Dr. Tvech. RL, what’s the last name? Vech, V-E-E-C-H. He was feeding ketone supplements, including ketone acids, keto acids, to kidney patients who had no kidney function. 46:24 And he found they did fine if he adjusted the diet so that they could recycle their protein and phosphate. And the BRR study that was used as an argument that essential fatty acids exist, that linoleic acid is required for making synapses and brains and so on. A guy that worked in his lab, his name was William Redmond Brown, decided to try it on himself to see if he could live without essential fatty acids. So they put him on an absolutely chemically purified diet, no fat whatsoever, extracted milk as the protein, 47:25 added sugar as the only calorie, and had his only natural food, I think it was a half of an orange per day. And he wasn’t in perfect health when he started, some high blood pressure and migraines and such. And after a couple of months on this sugar and milk protein diet, his migraine headaches went away, never to return. And he never developed any signs of fat deficiency. So really, he was, for six months, he proved that an absolutely fat-free diet was good for the health. And the interesting thing that he saw was that his phosphate levels stabilized at a lower level. 48:28 And in recent years, a protein called clotho, KLO-THO, has been identified as, in a mutant mouth that lacks it, they prematurely age. So this is called the anti-aging clotho protein. And what it does is regulate phosphate. And the interesting thing about William Brown’s diet was that his phosphate was regulated downward. And that’s the effect of the anti-aging protein, clotho. So I think there’s something about the sugar diet, 49:32 which sucrose is half of a keto sugar. And the ketone of the fructose seems to have the same effect as the ketone that’s produced in either the potato diet, the keto-acid-rich diet, or the ketogenic diet. And when you’re healthy, the ketones dominate. The acetoacetate, where you have the double bond of oxygen, is higher than the hydroxybutyrate, which is reduced. And the keto sugar fructose lowers the free phosphate and also the ATP of the cell. The cell is producing energy very fast, 50:33 but it is keeping the ATP and the phosphate slightly lower than normal, making the cell run faster. Like the brown fat metabolism, it’s dissipating heat as its function. And the ketones, when they’re in the oxidized state, I think are keeping every cell, not just your brown fat, but your brain cells and everything, wasting heat, generating heat, and preventing obesity and all of the sluggish, slowing down symptoms of stress and aging. So I see keeping the ketone ratio in an oxidized state, keeping the cell in an oxidized state, no matter how you’re doing it. I think you end up in the same place. 51:34 So breathing high concentration of carbon dioxide is pushing the cell. The intrinsic electron affinity of the carbon dioxide, it’s an acid in itself. It affects the cell, pushing it towards the oxidized state the same way the ketones do. The oxidized ketones are retracting electrons from the cells. Yeah. Well, you know, what I’d like to stop here, if that’s okay. Misha, I know you have maybe give you a chance to make one more comment or so, and then stop and I’ll send you both a copy of this. And then we’ll see about maybe if it’s okay with you, Dr. Pete, to go forward with this a little bit more. Would that be all right with you? Yeah. We’ll sit another time. Okay. Take it away. Go ahead. Well, it sounds very interesting, Dr. Pete, 52:36 and it’s a new perspective of what ketosis is and how we can thrive on different kinds of diets. But you see, I’m trying to do something that is easily understandable and is easily kind of doable by person. So, and I tried also to cooperate with some paleoanthropologists that are working on defining what kind of diet the primitive people in the time where our DNA was formed, what they were eating, what kind of diet they were eating. And it looks like we cannot be 400%!s(MISSING)ure, but it looks like still many primitive people in the world, 53:38 they use diets that are assembling very much ketogenic diet and the thriving of it on it and don’t have cardiovascular disease, no obesity, and no diabetes. And that’s why I chose the ketogenic diet and I see there’s a lot of scientific research right now on it and I see myself the results with the, I just had a patient, a client with diabetes one, having diabetes one for 40 years, 52 years old doctor, and after four hours, four months of work with me, he’s A1, he has fallen two millimole per liter under the normal rate in four months. And the diabetes one. 54:41 So you see this is, this rocks, really rocks what I see now. And I’m really, it’s so interesting area because you see there’s a lot of applications and people, I can see that people really can thrive on it. And they shed kilos like very, very fast. And the inflammation stops. And I actually, I also use ketogenic diet on my dog. And my dog had an inflammation on the, here, a bursitis, here, a very, very strong bursitis like that. And the doctors say that he has to be operated. I say, no, no operation at all. So I started massaging him and then I went to the butcher and said, I would like to have some lamb fat. Please give me lots of lamb fat. So he, after two months of lamb fat, the bursitis, all the inflammation vanished. 55:46 And he’s not humping anymore. No pills, no surgery, nothing. So it’s lamb fat and the rest, real meat, real meats. Not just muscle meat, you mean organ meats as well. Organ meats, yes, but mostly fat, yeah. I give him a little bit of apple too during the day. I give him some cabbage, actually, because he’s a, yeah, he’s un-Russian. So cabbage, you have to have cabbage. Otherwise, we cannot coexist in the same house. Well, I want to thank you, Misha. Thank you, Dr. Pete, so much. This has just been enormously instructive to me. I will send both of you a copy of this and we’ll set up a time that works for both of you in the not too distant future to go further with this, if that’s okay. Would be great, but and Dr. Pete, it was so enriching experience. 56:49 Thank you very, very much. There’s a lot of ideas and views on physiology that I never been close to before. Very, very interesting. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you all. Have a great day. Bye-bye now. Bye.