Stress, Cell Energy, Mitochondria, GABA, Herbs

00:00 Welcome to this evening’s Ask Europe Doctor. My name is Andrew Murray. My name is Sarah Johanna Sunmary. For those of you who perhaps have never listened to the show, they run every third Friday of the month from 7 p.m. to 8 p.m. We have call-in from 7.30 to 8 o’clock and once again we have our very special guest speaker who’s full of information about current events as well as historically accurate important past events. So that brings it into context for all of us. You’re listening to KMUD Garibald, 91.1 f.a.m. and from 7.30, sorry, until the end of the show. Like I said, we’ll ask you and call us, call in with any questions, either related or related to this month’s loose topic on stress, GABA systems, different herbs that combat stress in different ways, mitochondrial support, and Dr. Pete will be bringing in his wisdom and his expertise in terms of mitochondrial activity and how that all plays in with the hormones and other substances like thyroid, progesterone, pregnalone, et cetera, that all support the anti- 01:07 inflammatory cascade, as it were, that battles the inflammation that most people just constantly under attack with. We are going through a pledge drive this evening, so sorry for those people who perhaps waited thinking it was starting at 7. It’s just started just now. So it’s all good. So without this radio show, this kind of program would not be on the air. So those people that are listening, there is a pledge drive going on. It’s basically a supported network of people, volunteers, and donors that keep this radio station independent and make just this kind of show possible because you’re not going to hear too much of what we say and too much of what other people have to say in their various programings from regular broadcasts. It’s not controlled mainstream media folks. It’s the alternative. So please support it wherever and however you can. So like I said this evening, Dr. Raymond Pete’s joining us and hopefully he’s with us on the VIP line. Are you there, Dr. Pete? Yes, hi. Thanks so much for joining us again and sharing your wisdom 02:13 and giving your time as freely as you do. I really appreciate it. Thank you. As usual, I think it’s always very good to just outline your professional and academic background. So people who perhaps have never listened to the show or heard you even before can hear your background. And I know when they hear you speak, they know you know what you’re talking about. But if you can just say a little bit about your background and your past, that’d be great. Okay, after 10 or 15 years of working in language and literature, I have shifted over to biology, and especially aging and metabolism reproduction, studying at the University of Oregon, 1968 to 72 for a biology PhD. Okay, so I know we’ve heard a lot about you in the past in terms of thyroid, your specialty with thyroid hormone physiology, explaining the mechanisms by which you have come to see thyroid activity within the body, as well as, like you mentioned, 03:16 progesterone and pregnenolone and the aging that is one of your specialties. In terms of what we’re going to get into this evening with a loose connection to the topic of mitochondria and their job in the body, what they do, how they operate, what things decrease their activity, and how they are slowly deactivated and the substances that deactivate them over time with aging. I think can I just start with GABA. There’s a compound called GABA as an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and I know there’s some herbs that I’d like to link that to as we get on with this discussion about things that stimulate the nervous system, things that help it to relax, and what that relaxation is as opposed to the excitotoxic effect of stress. So, in terms of GABA, what do you want to say, Sarah? Well, I just wanted to ask Dr. Pete if you can explain 04:16 simply what the mitochondria is in the cell. I’ve been told it’s the powerhouse of the cell, and can you please explain that to our listeners in case people might not know what mitochondria is? That’s a good enough definition, I think, but there is a very stereotyped text bookie definition of it that it consists of a certain kind of membrane and special enzymes and some DNA separate from nucleus, and it handles various functions other than energy production, but steroid synthesis is one of its very important functions that converts cholesterol to pregnenol and progesterone, and those turn into all of the steroid hormones. So, is that why people, when they age, their cholesterol goes up because their mitochondria isn’t as efficient in converting the cholesterol into those hormones? Yeah, and thyroid is the main 05:23 hormone that activates the oxidative metabolism of the mitochondrion, and so if your thyroid is slow, the mitochondria don’t pull in the cholesterol and turn it to pregnenol, and the other cofactor working with thyroid happens to be vitamin A, and that a protein in the blood carries thyroid and vitamin A on a single protein and delivers it to the mitochondria over there, like a factory with a conveyor belt bringing in the raw materials and the catalysts. And that’s how they make the hormones, because the cholesterol plus the vitamin A makes progesterone? Yeah, the vitamin A is involved in steroid formation in not only the gonads and adrenals, but also in the brain and the skin. The skin and the brain are major steroid endocrine clans. 06:30 So, every cell in our body has a mitochondria and does its job in that particular part of the body, but if you don’t have adequate thyroid, then you won’t be getting adequate oxygen into that mitochondria, and basic energy production of that cell and function, cellular function, will be decreased. Yeah, red blood cells don’t have mitochondria. They depend on sugar for their energy, of course. Okay, just quickly getting onto, I just caught on what you said. I know in the past you’ve all mentioned it, and I think people who perhaps just have heard you speak and have listened to you, would begin to understand that the physiological explanations of membranes is pretty flawed when I was studying. That includes the textbook definition of what a mitochondrion is and how it works. They use the membrane and what they call the chemiosmotic hypothesis, 07:34 and the membrane has to have certain kind of metaphysical physical properties, and if you look at a real cell oxidizing, it turns out that the outer surface of the cell has mitochondrial-like properties. The same enzyme reactions using oxygen and consuming electrons happens right at the surface of the cell, as well as in the mitochondrion. So the whole supposition that the membrane is a cohesive barrier, and it’s not fluid, it’s not dynamic, it’s very much a skin, which is the way I always understood, was told to understand membranes and with channels and with channels and pumps and all the rest of it. And what about all the organelles? Is that completely bogus as well? They are suspected to be artifacts of fixation largely, but 08:37 things are differentiated, but when you kill them and take out the water and harden them and slice them, things don’t look the way they did when they were alive. So is there no way they can look at the cell while it’s alive? Yeah, people have done an atlas of the brain, for example, slicing the brain and freezing it and making pictures, and then doing the standard fixation where you get a nice sharp image. Their size is tremendously different. The internal structure, of course, is different too. Well, don’t the fixatives change the structure as well, though? Yeah, Harold Hillman is probably the person most famous for challenging conventional biology, saying that everything is an artifact of fixation. 09:38 What about the live microscopy? Yeah, where you use fluorescent stain, for example, you can see very amazing things swirling around and doing things that are fairly parallel to the theoretical descriptions, but sometimes the structures seem to be more like a whirlwind than an organelle. The 1940s when radioactive isotopes became available, the whole idea of the barrier membrane was eliminated. Gilbert Lange reviews the history of that, but there is no barrier to sodium, for example, because it slips in and out of the cell. Because I was always taught about the sodium potassium ATPase, which needed a molecule of ATP 10:40 to pump in and pump out a molecule of sodium and potassium in return. Yeah, but if you take a hair which is perfectly dead and wash out the minerals and then dip it in blood serum or plasma, you get the same unequal distribution of the minerals, potassium inside and sodium outside. And it’s exactly the same principle as a water softener where you charge it with sodium and then it removes calcium from the hard water. A man named Mysel wrote a book on things including the physics of water softeners and he recognized Gilbert Lange’s work in biology as the best explanation for how a water softener works. 11:42 The physics was so good in describing cells that even physicists recognized that it worked for something as common as a water softener. But biologists just don’t like that way of looking at cells. It tends to leave out a lot of their favorite beliefs about genes and so on. Is that where the word Mysel was coined from? All right, you’re listening to I Ask Europe Dr. K. Medi-Garble, 91.1 FM. From 7.30 to the end of the show, 8 o’clock you’re invited to call in with questions related or unrelated to this month’s topic of mitochondria energy production and we’re going to cover things like valerian and rhodiola, chisandra and ginseng as typical herbs that have plenty of scientific data and pharmacological data to support their effects in supporting mitochondria and in energy production 12:42 and mediating the negative effects of stress. A number if you live in the area is 933911. If you’re outside the area there’s a toll-free number which is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. Those people listening to us on the web, that toll-free number is a good number to call. If you have any questions either related or unrelated and Dr. Peat is joining us again this month. We are going through a pledge drive folks, those people who’ve perhaps just tuned in, KMUD-Garble, 91.1, conducting one of our several pledge drives that go on through the year to raise finances to keep this great show on the air and to keep other shows on the air, not just this one, I didn’t mean this great show but great shows on the air. This great station. Yeah, this great station that actually brings out a lot of very alternative information to people that’s not mainstream. You probably won’t find this kind of stuff too many other places so keep it alive because it’s rapidly disappearing in this country. Okay, so Dr. Peat you mentioned that there was a 13:43 single protein which carries vitamin A and cholesterol. If you know the name of the protein great but otherwise do you know if there’s anything that would be supportive to that protein that seems like a fairly key intermediary in that process? It’s the low density lipoprotein that delivers cholesterol and then prealbumin or transthyretin which transports the thyroid and vitamin A. Which is why it’d be so dangerous to have a low LDL which is what most doctors call the bad cholesterol. It’s a good one because it brings us stuff to make cholesterol out of. Okay good, so people did you get that? Once again it’s just another call to arms as it were that cholesterol is not the enemy. So the LDL cholesterol which is always coined as the bad cholesterol is actually the cholesterol that chaperones these very important molecules to enable things like steroid synthesis to occur so without cholesterol you’d be in bad shape. 14:47 Another fact I think I just I coined I heard this coined not too long ago was that the brain’s white matter is 95%!c(MISSING)holesterol. So if cholesterol is not important then why is the brain 95%!(NOVERB) cholesterol? Well that’s why they did that study in older people who had low cholesterol were much more prone to dementia. And Dr. Pete just to let people know again you always advocate a cholesterol should be between 180 and 200 that’s quite healthy and also after 50s years of age you should be slightly over 200. Yeah according to the Framingham study people over 50 who weren’t above 200 in their cholesterol were more likely to have dementia. Yeah okay all right so let’s move on to some of those things that have been written about and recorded and pharmacology has been provided and scientific background has been explained for the action of but I know that you’ll probably have some other ways of tying in what perhaps we were taught when we were studying how these 15:50 things worked. So perhaps fallarium root is one of those herbs that a lot of people would have used would have heard about and have tried and certainly would have gotten benefits for either insomnia or anxiety as a mild sedative and I was always told that its main attribute was that it provided GABA and prevented the breakdown. So the valeranic acid was actually responsible for inhibiting the breakdown of GABA as well. What do you know about GABA as a neurotransmitter and how do you feel about valerians use being warranted given what I’ve said? I think a valerian also increases the activity of the enzyme that converts the excitatory glutamic acid into the inhibitory GABA so it does just about everything needed to protect the brain increasing GABA and the effective GABA 16:53 and GABA is the system called the GABA receptor is probably the most complex bunch of proteins that has the name receptor. Many different things affected in different ways. Valerian or valium the specific molecule apparently binds to it in a way similar to GABA and in a slightly different way than progesterone, pigment alone and probably the androgens of some types and even carbon dioxide probably is involved in binding in some way near this so-called receptor. Stabilizing a whole system of proteins to turn off the excitatory process in the cell. 18:01 Yeah it’s a very excitation I think when people hear the word we need to support its definition. Excitatory is a very wasteful situational state to be in isn’t it when in terms of the cell being excited I think for very short-term activity that’s not a problem but the excitation in general when it’s longer term is actually very detrimental to the cell. Yeah that’s what causes brain fatigue if you stay awake too long and if you don’t have a good supply of glucose producing carbon dioxide for example you more quickly get into the fatigued state. The glucose one of its functions is actually to substantially contribute to the formation of GABA. The part of glucose molecule is involved in the synthesis but also the carbon dioxide stabilizes it and when the 19:06 glutamic acid is converted into GABA it also releases carbon dioxide that helps with the inhibitory process. So oxidative metabolism in the brain is doing many things producing GABA and progesterone, prognenolone, carbon dioxide and keeping down the excitatory things lactic acid, nitric oxide, glutamic acid, pneumonia for example. Okay well it’s estimated that 10%!o(MISSING)f people respond to valerian in the opposite way that you would want them to and they actually get excited from taking valerian almost like cats do when they get around it. Can you possibly explain why that might be happening? Um no not at all. Yeah because there are some people that definitely give feedback of 20:07 oh wait we woke me up it didn’t help me sleep and relax actually had the opposite effect. Yeah it stimulated me I guess it made me feel jittery. Anyway all right it’s not a big deal. Okay so I wanted also to bring out that St. John’s work as another that’s positive to be a reuptake inhibitor of GABA and that compound was shown to be hyper-foreign which was one of the actives that are sometimes standardized in terms of making a standardized extract of St. John’s and then I also found some evidence here to show that lemon balm was shown to be a GABA transaminase inhibitor so that is it blocks the enzyme GABA transaminase which converts GABA to a compound called succinic semi aldehyde and glutamate. So all of these reactions are reversible for very obvious reasons and the body obviously has a very fine fine tune in order to keep this whole homeostasis running properly and preventing 21:11 over excitation and overrestfulness somnambulance almost in some ways. I did read the article on mitochondrial disease there’s a known syndrome of it and one of its main downsides obviously it’s a complete downside having a syndrome but one of the main downsides is the kind of somnambulance that you get with it where people just either getting seizures and just being completely unable to perform. In terms of keeping that balance between the GABA-urgic side of keeping things stable and calm I’ll even to think of that as being the optimum state and that actually it’s like thyroid where thyroid itself is not at all stimulant it actually helps you relax helps the cell repolarize and re-energize its resting potential. 22:13 I call that the high energy resting state in which the cells all through the body especially in the brain have so much energy that they’re ready to do anything but when you get very fatigued they lack the energy needed to replenish that work work ready condition and so they are in sort of a hypersensitive sensitive agitated condition their voltage so-called resting voltage goes very low and they stay in a more or less constantly excited but unable to work condition and magnesium is one of the things that helps to restore the relaxed state. Thyroid helps you to retain magnesium. Magnesium stabilizes the high energy ATP molecule 23:19 and without thyroid you can’t make that very quickly and so if you have adequate thyroid producing oxidative energy and producing ATP that causes the cell to retain magnesium and that complex of things holds the cell in a ready to work state with lots of reserve energy simply a magnesium deficiency will cause seizures insomnia inflammation everything that a lack of energy leads to. So do you think then it’s more it’s very important to and I’m saying this because I understand this is the way but just for our listeners to have small amounts of sugars foods regularly so that your body’s energy supply is constantly stocked rather than going you know 24:19 for six hours or more without food and then having you know a loaded meal in terms of keeping mitochondria as happy as possible rather than allowing them to get depleted to a point where they’re no longer really able to bounce back or you know for you to be able to pick up again relatively quickly. And the B vitamins are essential for using oxygen efficiently in the mitochondria. Okay vitamin B1, biotin B2. Okay all right so what about melatonin let’s move on to melatonin as a substance that I’ve read quite a few articles some of which have been very disturbing I must admit and we’ll get into that in a little bit but I know most of the advertising for melatonin is very pro sleeping pro relaxing you know they don’t say anything dangerous about it you know it’s naturally produced it is found in different you know different products from foods 25:21 liquids and food stuffs so it’s a fairly ubiquitous chemical it obviously has a very specific function it really does work physiologically and it’s very important but what’s your impression of melatonin in terms of its use and whether or not your do you feel comfortable around it? Well I think the good side of it is that in the fatigued state of the brain the excitatory de-energized condition nitric oxide rises and starts a vicious circle in which activates acetylcholine which activates nitric oxide synthesis and it rises and can keep you awake and melatonin is effective at turning off that cycle so when your brain is in a bad fatigue state melatonin can are protected by getting down the nitric oxide and excitation. 26:25 But wouldn’t that be like in a small dose or is it different for every patient? Yeah one publication refers to the physiological dose which would be equivalent in an average sized adult to five micrograms per body. An ultra small amount would replenish your whole body others have measured it as up to maybe two or three milligrams in the whole body as a physiological concentration so when a person takes 10 milligrams for sure it will put them to sleep but it probably is doing lots of other things and in the antioxidant experiments or the radiation protection experiments they’ve used something like a thousand or maybe a million times the concentration 27:26 that exists physiologically so it can do amazing things like protect you against gamma rays but if you do that more than during or shortly after the exposure the outcome might might have unexpected consequences it was only in the later 1990s when the material became very cheap and widely sold that all of this amazing stuff about being a oh anti cancer anti stress anti inflammatory if you’re protecting against everything all of these studies came out by the thousands but when I was in graduate school it wasn’t even certain that melatonin was the main pineal hormone and what was known was that 28:27 the pineal extract had very specific effects that imitated night time and winter and in the winter all animals from fish, turtles, lizards, rats, sheep and so on everyone’s reproductive system shrinks away during the winter some species can manage to reproduce in the winter but in general it’s a principle that not only the gonads regress but the thymus gland regresses in all of these different types of animals and the thymus atrophy or involution during the winter uh strongly affects the way the immune system works and that’s part of why people are more susceptible to infections during the winter and this 29:33 involution of both the reproductive glands and the immune thymus gland this has lots of behavioral consequences everyone knows about the seasonal affective disorder or winter sickness in which depression and weight gain becomes so common during the winter long nights and melatonin is the main thing that causes involution of the thymus gland and gonads the original studies were done with extracts of the in the old gland but you get effectively the same thing just with melatonin so what about different parts in the world of the world you know like if someone was in Hawaii yep there are seasonal changes don’t exist they’re the equator so they’re thymus and 30:35 yeah you don’t have the winter sickness or winter immune disturbance okay you’ll listen to ask your Dr. K. M. D. Galbival 91.1 FM from now to late o’clock callers are invited to call in questions either related what we’ve been talking about so far from GABA to melatonin to the various mitochondrial issues number here is 391 sorry nine two three three nine one one eight hundred K. M. U. D. Rad that’s one eight hundred five six eight three seven two three okay Dr. P I had some articles that I was reading this afternoon whilst putting this together to see if this was going to be something that we were going to be supporting or helping people discourage the use of because I know melatonin is used along with serotonin it’s very popular but not always a good thing I did read the papers and again there was conflicting information on PubMed some of the information was saying for example that melatonin 31:37 suppresses tumor aerobic metabolism which is the kind of warburg effect the auto warburg described and some some of them said that melatonin was actually pro-cancerous how do you how do you see that some of that varies with the variety of mouse that they’re using for example in some studies they’ve been planted an extra pineal gland or used melatonin sometimes it decreases tumors sometimes it increases them the effect on the immune system partly depends on the dose and when you’re using a thousand fold variation in doses that’s the first thing you have to think of what’s what’s actually happening physiologically in in the normal range and a lot of studies are getting anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects but at least two groups one in china and one in 32:47 denver are seeing very clear pro-inflammatory effects from physiological amounts of melatonin there you go okay so yeah I didn’t it doesn’t seem like you’d want to be taking something that triggers the wintertime response that that’s what I’ve always thought in in our hamster lab um we noticed that even though the lab was supposedly well insulated and temperature controlled and had a 12 hour light and dark cycle the hamsters during the winter had essentially no thymus gland and that was one of the things that started me thinking about the potential risk of of the changing your whole endocrine system by supplementing something like that okay we have a caller on the air so let’s take this first caller here see caller where you from you’re on the air 33:54 you’re on the air I think your engineers waving around I’m not too sure what’s going on we have a caller on the air though but go ahead yeah I think caller caller you’re on you can speak up okay so someone needs to find out how to get that going because we do have a caller but they’re not coming through at the moment so okay well let’s until we get this caller back let’s just ask you about the I think you did mention this early on but just to reiterate again I had read some information about melatonin potentially hate helping in radiation oncology treatments where people get radio therapy what do you what do you think about that in terms of its negative effects that we’ve heard about actually let’s hold it there before we go any further let’s take this caller whilst they’re on the air let’s take him where you from caller 34:56 okay we’re getting messed around here might be something to do with the pledge drive and all the calls coming in to pour money into the into the into the studio to keep us going okay so dr. p what do you think about the use of melatonin in radio in oncology in radio therapy perhaps um if you’re found to have the radiation I think that the very large doses of melatonin are probably very protective against that that may change effect but the the trouble with using it for treating tumors is that you can kill off all of the the actual bulk cells of the tumor which are really defective and weak cancer cells that are in in the the normal tumor they’re being replaced very quickly and when you kill them off you irritate the region where the tumor was and stimulate 36:02 that region’s ability to recruit new repair cells and those cells zoom into the irradiated area and recreate the tumor because you haven’t cured the organism’s problem yeah because it is a very and I just the last word on melatonin the only reason I was asking for its use in radio therapy was that it’s potently antioxidant and like you said you know potentially for what it is and what it’s capable of structurally it’s very good at mopping up free radical damage causing compounds so I think that was some of the reason first the the research that was done on it okay well let’s move on to I’ve got a few other things I wanted to ask you about and I know you know as usual you know you know plenty about it I didn’t even know that you had looked at it but you I know I’d spoken to you a while back here and you’d mentioned what you had known so rhodiola rosea is a crassula so that kind of 37:06 fleshy thick fleshy-leaved succulent type of plant I didn’t realize that it’s actually been used for about three and a half thousand years it was first mentioned 13th century BC and in the Greek Bronze Age and then there was documentation plenty of documentation about the Vikings using it to enhance physical strength and endurance and then obviously lots of Chinese data about the emperor sending expeditions to Siberia to bring back this golden root which is its common name for medical preparations and then the I know we talked about adaptogens in the past but this is another one of those kind of golden adaptogens was discovered in 47 the term adaptogen by the Russian scientist Nikolai Lazarev who coined that fact and then Dr. Lazarev was also a mentor of Dr. Breckman who conducted extensive research on adaptogenic herbs 38:08 so rhodiola rosea in terms of it being an adaptogen being a physical enhancement a cognitive enhancer anti-cancer do you do you know much about rhodiola and perhaps how you’d see that being supportive in terms of mitochondrial protection or anti-stress yeah I happen to be studying the progesterone family of steroids around the same time I was running into ginseng and rhodiola research and Han Selye had the the concept of catatoxic steroids he called them catatoxic catatoxic they destroyed the toxin effect okay and it isn’t exactly the same as detoxifying but they protect the organism by blocking the effect 39:10 of a toxin and I think that’s one of the effects of the adaptogens they have some steroids that are analogous to progesterone and testosterone in that catatoxic or stress blocking effect and the a russian heart researcher Felix Mayerson was continuing Han Selye’s concept of stress and adapting to stress and applying it on the mitochondrial level which Han Selye never really focused very much on but Mayerson’s idea was that we have many layers of stress limiting signals and hormones and and processes and the it happens that the steroids are one major 40:18 stress limiting system where cortisol and serotonin and nitric oxide and estrogen activate the short-term stress reactions that can stimulate brief defense if those continue they destroy the organism so you need a stress ending process and that’s where the the progesterone testosterone pregnant alone come in and things that turn off the nitric oxide and serotonin and estrogen and it happens that these plants not only have the steroid level of stress limiting factors but many other types of substances the polyphenols and flavonoids for example specifically turn off nitric oxide production and limit the excitatory serotonin 41:23 pathway for example which turns on cortisol I want to ask you about that in relation to red compounds too but we do have a caller on the air let’s try again caller you’re on the airway from third time lucky San Francisco California San Francisco California welcome to the show what’s your right what’s your question for Dr. Pete hi Dr. Pete I wanted to know what causes tooth decay and how do you reverse it what causes what tooth decay okay oh um I I think it’s uh stress related um there is one type of cavity that uh starts with a a dark area rather just I think I think the stress one starts with a white area rather than the usual dark area and it comes on very fast with uh the mobilization of calcium from the dentine under the influence of stress another kind is related to stress starting from the outside 42:29 with the mobilization of uh calcium because of imbalances and uh pro-inflammatory factors in the saliva and so the basic thing is to keep your energy up and stress low so that you don’t uh have either harmful saliva or uh an internal uh anti-calcium uh system and vitamin D and vitamin k are very important for putting calcium into the keeping it in the heart tissue serotonin in the last three or four years has been found to be a a major calcium disruptor in the bones and teeth as well so it’s really a a matter of your total systemic health 43:32 more than just what happens in your mouth well thank you very much thank you for your call a caller okay well uh I guess we have time if it’s eight minutes to eight let’s just see we’ll let people know anyway otherwise we’ll carry on here for the next eight minutes but if you’re in the area the numbers uh nine two three three nine one one or if you’re outside the area there’s a toll free number one eight hundred k m u d rad or one eight hundred five six eight three seven two three so we’ve got about five minutes to say before we need to wrap up um so dr beat I wanted to ask you about hypersin you know the red oil from st john’s wort that you can make I remember you saying something to me about red compounds are very antioxidant and protective um you know that is a big polycyclic molecule that the reason it’s red is that it is uh the electrons resonate and absorb a lot of light and that makes it analogous to the 44:38 molecules such as in cascara emoden or in aloe and in the tetracycline antibiotics and the tricyclic antidepressants and i serotonin and a histamine agent how about pal darko there’s a dark root and catuaba barkers uh yeah exactly that same type of polycyclic molecule I think it’s analogous to the stabilizing um multi-ring steroid molecules they have a kind of geometric stabilizing action on the uh the microstructure of the cell as well as the electronic withdrawing effect when the cell is is stressed and its voltage goes down the local electrons in effect are concentrated they become very active and and 45:40 reduce or attack molecules that they shouldn’t be acting on when you don’t have enough oxygen you get loose electrons that cause mischief all all through the cell that’s what we would term free radical reaction yeah okay now you buy quinone as another one of those structural molecules uh similar to the structures that are formed by the compounds that give those dark red pigments uh you buy quinone and then I was going to ask you about biop qq which seems to be the latest uh the latest kid on the block in terms of the uh most potent antioxidant and mitochondrial stimulator uh going it’s a kind of another form of you buy quinone um yeah I’m not sure how important it is to have the most potent antioxidants well in marketing it’s very important but that the uh vitamin k happens to stabilize uber quinone okay and uh all of these things work 46:50 in a system so when you’re using vitamin c it is in an oxidized form that keeps vitamin e in the right condition and these and progesterone keep uber quinone and vitamin k in the right system it’s a much more organized system on the small molecule level than the than the big molecule people usually recognize okay all right so b vitamins are very quickly here um in terms of mitochondria I know you’ve met we’ve mentioned here coq m’s i’m 10 uh you buy quinone and biop qq if people want to take a look at that and whatever research doesn’t coq 10 stabilize the vitamin k yeah that’s what they work together yeah with the mitochondria so the b vitamins are also very important in terms of electronic stability uh yeah keeping the cell pretty free of of lactate because lactate represents the shift towards loose electrons that get in trouble right okay and then 47:56 we buffalo liver pate or your b vitamins we do like buffalo liver pate by the way and then the antioxidants obviously things like vitamin c and vitamin e uh we’ve already mentioned those and plenty of different instances where they’re important well dr p uh thank you so much for joining us um i know we didn’t get we got one caller uh to get probably uh i’m not too sure why sometimes there’s lots sometimes there’s not many but anyway it i know the show’s going to get listened to uh on the web and on the audio archives and i know lots of people call me later i get several weeks or months even people telling me how they listen to this and that shows so it’s recorded there for future history as long as our species exist put it that way so thanks so much for your time dr p okay thank you thank you good night okay so for those people who’ve uh found the show this evening for the first time dr raymond p has got a wealth of information on his website that is www.raypeach.com plenty of scholarly articles fully referenced uh he’s always writing articles so 49:00 usually every month he produces a newsletter i’m not too sure how subscription to that’s going i think at one point he stopped it because it was getting out of control but i’m not too uh people should definitely ask him if he’s still if it’s still available they don’t take my word for it i think things may have may have improved a little but i know he’s a very busy person so just check just check his website yeah just check his website okay and we can also be reached uh toll free one uh eight eight eight wbm herb monday through friday nine to five and um my name is andrew marie until the third of uh third friday of next month uh have a good night my name’s sarah johanneson murray and good night and before i want to make sure that we gave ray peat email i mean website www.raypeat.com and our website is www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com all right thank you for listening you have a good night