Sugar, Cholesterol, Obesity, Heart Disease

00:00 This free program is paid for by the listeners of Redwood Community Radio. If you’re not already a member, please think of joining us. Thank you. Repeat. So I will read the disclaimer and the card for the next one and continue on. The views and opinions expressed throughout the broadcast day on KMUD are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the station, its staff or underwriters. Time will be made available for other viewpoints. And thank you for joining us. One, five, six, nine. And here we have Ask Your Herb Doctor. 01:57 Welcome to this month’s Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name’s Andrew Murray. My name’s Sarah Johanneson Murray. Well, for those of you who perhaps have never listened to our shows, they run every third Friday of the month from 7 to 8 p.m. We’re both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. We run a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and we manufacture all our own certified organic herbal extracts, which are either grown on our CCF certified herb farm or which are sourced from other USA certified organic suppliers. You’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM and from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o’clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions, either related or unrelated to this month’s topic, a mixed topic perhaps, but a topic about sugar. 02:59 Sugar is good for you. All right. OK, so the number here if you live in the area is 923 3911 or if you live outside the area, the toll free number is 1-800-KMUD-RAD, that’s 1-800-568-3723. We can also be reached toll free on 1-888-WBMO for further questions during normal business hours, Monday through Friday. Well, once again, we’re very pleased and very excited to have Dr. Raymond Peat join us on the show and share his years of wisdom and research to help us understand the erroneous statements that the medical industry and the scientific community make that are so easily flawless into believing that what they’re saying is true. It’s not always the case and we go on to dedicate this next 30 minutes at least or longer to exposing some of the myths about sugar 04:00 and especially the myths about the link between sugar, obesity and diabetes and heart disease. And there’s another doctor, Dr. Ufe Ravenskov, who’s produced many books, one of which is the cholesterol myths. And the cholesterol myths, I know we’re talking about sugar, but the whole link between sugar and lipids and the general obesity and heart disease epidemic that we’ve seen all around the world. There’s definite links between the two. Dr. Peat will bring those out and show how erroneous some of the statements about sugar have been. So, Dr. Peat, are you there? Yes. Okay, thank you for joining us once again. As always, we may have new listeners who’ve never heard the show or maybe never heard you, so I’d appreciate it if you would let people know your scientific background. Oh, I guess I started basically when I started in graduate school. 05:05 I’d been reading on my own, but I decided to study physiology in the biology department at the University of Oregon, 1967, 1968. Since then, I’ve been pretty much full-time working in physiology-related things. Reproductive endocrinology was what I did in my dissertation on how oxidative metabolism interacts with aging, estrogen, and so on to regulate fertility and sterility. Part of that thesis work was it involved the aging of metabolism and how oxygen came to be wasted more and more with aging or under the influence of stress or high estrogen. 06:08 The age pigment lipofuscin was one of the things that I found was involved in high estrogen and aging or stress or radiation damage. Lipofuscin is a breakdown product of polyunsaturated fatty acids largely with other things bound into little brown lumps in the cells. It consumes oxygen and wastes energy and eventually can kill the cell, but its main function seems to be to waste oxygen and energy. Those are those little brown spots that people call age spots or liver spots on their skin? They form in the brain, on the skin, everywhere, and they tend to get formed faster and faster the more stress you’re under. Pretty soon, if you’re under the influence of unopposed estrogen, 07:11 they can just eat all the oxygen and not leave any for the cell functions. That was what really started me getting interested in the unsaturated fat metabolism. I did that dissertation in 1972 and that was the year that John Yudkin published his book. I think it was called Pure White and Deadly or something. Pure White and Dangerous, maybe. I read that and was so impressed by his argument that sugar increases blood lipids, saturated fats, and cholesterol. That was what started me on the idea of recommending increased sugar for people who were under stress because I had already become convinced that there was no basis at all 08:13 for the connection between high cholesterol and saturated fats and atherosclerosis and heart disease and so on. When I would see someone deficient in progesterone having too much estrogen and age pigment, they would often recover if they could increase their cholesterol production. The simplest way to do that was to have them eat some extra sugar. That started me seeing the therapeutic possibilities of sugar, but from there I worked backwards understanding where the lipid hypothesis had come from and especially the doctrine that essential fatty acids are essential nutritionally. Since they’re what lipofuscum is made from, 09:16 it seemed increasingly important to understand how that theory came about. I saw that George and Milbert Burr were the ones who had created that idea in 1929 and 30. In their experiment, they didn’t at that time know about most of the essential nutrients, vitamins, and minerals. They fed what they thought was a complete diet. When they eliminated the linoleic and related so-called essential fatty acids, their animals developed skin symptoms and various things that they called the Burr disease. Their diet consisted to purify it so they could put in only the nutrients that were known in 1929. 10:25 They used a high sugar content, a little starch and a protein casein that had been highly purified. They recrystallized the sugar and precipitated the casein to eliminate all vitamins and minerals from it and then added what they thought were the essential nutrients. The animals, when they removed linoleic acid from their diet, developed these scaly tail symptoms and so on. Three years after that, George Burr put one of his rats under a bell jar and saw that it was burning oxygen at 50%!f(MISSING)aster rate than the rats getting the normal essential fatty acid diet. 11:31 He decided that that was because their skin was leaky because he said the essential fatty acids create a barrier in the skin. Just making this up out of a whole cloth. In the same journals where George and Mildred Burr published these ideas, those journals had already published articles by several well-known researchers showing that animals are healthier without fats in their diet and lived longer, didn’t get cancer and so on, but the Burrs just absolutely ignored the counter evidence and just went ahead and published their doctrine and their financiers supported them, but the world didn’t pay much attention to it. 15 years later, in the mid-1940s, Roger Williams, famous lab in Texas, University of Texas, 12:40 had been working on the B vitamins, discovering new B vitamins and essential minerals and such. And they created the exact diet that Burr had fed the rats, created the so-called Burr disease, and then cured it by supplementing them with vitamin B6. And so what had happened was that on a high sugar diet, the animals were burning calories 50%!f(MISSING)aster than normal. And on a terribly deficient diet, they got scaly skin, largely because of a vitamin B6 deficiency. And the Burrs, that pretty much just ruined their scientific accomplishment. But meanwhile, the pig industry had come to have problems with the chemical that they were using 13:45 to reduce feed intake, shut down their thyroid function and make them get fat cheaply. And they found that by substituting a high polyunsaturated fat diet, soybeans and corn, they suppressed their thyroid just as well as using that toxic drug and make them get fat on a small food intake. And the Burrs essential fatty acids turned out to be what was suppressing the thyroid. But at the same time, the seed oil industry was losing its market for extracting these unsaturated fats to use in paint and plastic manufacture. And that turned the whole seed oil industry, all the seed products that weren’t used to fatten livestock, 14:49 they found that they could increase the sales of these extracted seed oils by promoting the idea that they were healthful for human consumption. They had been hardening them to make margarine. And by promoting their health benefits, they sold them directly as liquid cooking oils and salad oils. And to do that, they found that a biological effect was that they lowered cholesterol production or lowered the cholesterol that appeared in the blood caused it to increase in the liver as a defensive reaction. But they created the doctrine of cholesterol as the cause of heart disease and to eat more of the unsaturated fats, even though they knew that they would create obesity as they did in the pig industry. 15:51 They convinced doctors by a huge campaign that cholesterol was found in the wall of arteries that were developing atherosclerosis and that since you could lower the cholesterol in the blood, they argued that you would lower the cholesterol in the wall of the artery and that that would prevent heart disease. And Ravanskov much later showed that none of those arguments had any evidence to support them. The atherosclerosis didn’t have a direct connection to heart disease mortality. Cholesterol in the blood didn’t have a connection directly with the formation of atherosclerosis and dietary fats, saturated fats, didn’t create the cholesterol in the blood. 16:54 But as there was a slight backsliding in the ability to sell doctors on the idea of eating unsaturated fats to lower cholesterol, there was a study with veterans in which putting them on the liquid oil diet eliminating saturated fats caused more of them to die of heart disease and a lot more of them to die of cancer. So there was some problem with that liquid theory already in the 1960s. And John Yudkin came out, he had been doing research since the mid-50s. In 1972 he published this book arguing that sugar caused heart disease because it increased cholesterol. And already since I knew that cholesterol didn’t have anything to do with heart disease except protecting against it to some extent. 18:02 That was where I started realizing that he was right on the issue that sugar would increase cholesterol in some people. But didn’t the Japanese come out with a study even just recently too that showed when they actually took off a plaque, an atherosclerotic plaque, it had a cholesterol bandage over, oxidized, rancid vegetable oil? Yeah, cholesterol protects every cell. It’s increased in the location that’s being injured especially. But it’s necessary for healthy cell division, DNA replication, nerve function, learning. It’s our most basic anti-stress protective substance. Right, so those oxidized vegetable oils were damaging the arterial wall. And if the cholesterol wasn’t there, then it couldn’t have stopped the rancidity and oxidation and it could have caused more problems, right? Yeah, and what starts the inflammation in the arterial wall and every well is the breakdown of the essential fatty acids into the pre-radical products and lipofuscum. 19:18 You can extract lipofuscum from every arterial plaque, every degenerative tissue, you find the breakdown products. But you don’t find polyunsaturated fats because they’re unstable, they break down quickly. And what you find is the cholesterol that’s there repairing the tissue, the saturated fats that didn’t break down, and the lipofuscum, which is the X essential fatty acid. The initial insult. So just for our listeners to understand in case they’re not aware of what this unsaturated fatty acid is, is it all liquid vegetable oils that are commonly sold and things are fried in. It also includes fish oils and omega-3 oils, omega-6 oils, flaxseed oil, hemp seed oil. All of these are very, very unstable products and they can go rancid outside the body, you know, even if you just have them at room temperature. 20:19 Once you ingest them inside your body, then they can go rancid very quickly because we’re warm and we’re full of oxygen. Yeah, in an experiment I put a little clear plastic tube into the cork of a bottle of safflower or corn oil and put the other end in a cup of water. And sitting at room temperature, you could see the water being sucked up into the tube as the oil sitting there was just consuming oxygen and becoming rancid. Even at room temperature, but it’s much faster at body temperature. Okay, you’re listening to Ask Your Adopter on KMUD Garberville, 91.1 FM. And from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o’clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions, either related or unrelated to this month’s mixed topic of sugars and the link with cholesterol. And Dr. Raymond Pete, endocrinologist, PhD, is here with us tonight on the show, so those people who want to question him about anything related or even unrelated to this evening’s subject, 21:25 feel free to call in numbers 1-800-KMUD-RAD if you’re outside the area or if you’re local here, it’s 923-3911. Okay, so Dr. Pete, sugar, I think it’s probably the second most maligned substance after cholesterol. Well, that’s why that guy was calling it the, what do you call it, dead, that… White and dead water. He said that it raised the cholesterol. Well, now that they’ve proven that cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease, and sugar raises cholesterol, and that’s a good guy. So what else are they saying about sugar? Oh, that blustig professor at University of California, San Francisco, in his famous lecture, uses the words toxic, poison, and evil. Someone countered 18 times in an hour and a half lecture. And that was, he was referring to fructose. Fructose, yeah. Referring to fructose, what the fruit, the sugar that’s found in fruit is toxic, evil, and deadly. 22:30 But since sucrose is 50%!f(MISSING)ructose, he was applying it to sucrose, too. Or the high fructose corn syrup, which is almost 50%!f(MISSING)ructose. And he was saying that it’s just like alcohol in being toxic to the liver. But that’s one of the weirdest things he said, because for many years, people have been showing that it detoxifies many things that enter the liver, including alcohol. It can increase almost double the rate of destruction of alcohol and prevent liver damage in the process. And many other toxins are detoxified in the presence of fructose. And sorry, our engineer just said, what about honey? And honey is mainly fructose, isn’t it, Dr. Pete? About half. 23:31 Half of fructose. And its honey and more purified fructoses have been used to treat diabetes and other things. Stomaculcers, sugar has been used to cure wounds, like in emergency situations. And I found that when they didn’t have antibiotics, they could do open heart surgery and pack the wound with pure white sucrose and prevent scarring, promote healing better than the fancy antibiotics. Honey was used for thousands of years that way to cure wounds. I think that’s how Alexander the Great prevented his soldiers from having wounds. Dying of usually fatal battle wounds. 24:32 In the 70s, there were many articles advocating the use of fructose in the diabetic diet because it had become economically pretty cheap, so it could be added practically to anyone’s diet to improve the regulation of blood glucose. The idea goes back to 1874, as someone showed that it metabolized better in diabetics than other sugars, and even earlier, sucrose was used to cure diabetes, 1856, 57. So I wonder again, why is it that mainstream science, perhaps you’d be understanding why corporations get it wrong, but why mainstream medical science? Why does it want to promote the idea that sugar is so bad for you? 25:38 I think it’s this momentum, they’re committed to the mistaken cholesterol, lipid theory of heart disease, and I think you’d kind of killed at the scale, and all of the ranting against cholesterol and animal fat just slid over to concentrate on sugar and fructose. Okay, well for people that are listening, if you have a pen and paper, some very good scientific reference articles written by a PhD medical doctor. The doctor’s name is Ufi Ravnskov, Swedish, so it’s R-A-V-N-S-K-O-V, so that’s Ufi Ravnskov, he’s produced about, I looked at it earlier, I think it was about 10 books, he’s produced over 80 scientific articles, and completely disputing the cholesterol myths. 26:44 And it’s just another excellent example for people that are listening to try and get their head around the fact that things come out and they are distorted, or they are steered in a different direction by various interests, and what we hear, what we read, what we’re told is constantly kind of reinforced as people keep telling each other the same lie. That you’ve got to be careful to not just take everything you’re told as truth, but look yourself and probe a little further to see if that’s really the case. So this is just another glaring example of where cholesterol has been mentioned as the evil and something you have to use cholesterol-lowering drugs to get your number down, when actually it’s a very protective compound. And I was just very briefly, I was looking at some of the articles around that showing and citing the many antimicrobial protective effects of cholesterol where they used mice in situations where they would basically give them cholesterol, or not, prior, or post-infection, so they would basically infect control mice. 27:59 It’s the same with toxins. As early as 1915, 1920, people were showing that cholesterol would protect against toxins as well as infectious things. And Ravenshoff did some studies on triglycerides, showing that they are also anti-infective. Okay, Dr. Pierce disappeared. Oh, no, I’m here. Okay, good. I lost you for a little bit there, not sure what happened. Okay, carry on. He showed that the triglycerides protect against infected things, and other people have shown that they are anti-inflammatory. And the low-density lipoprotein and also the high-density, it happens if you have extreme exposure to chemicals, your high-density lipoproteins increase, and so they associate with a higher incidence of cancer. 29:10 And we’re told that those are the good guys, and that you want a high HDL. They’re all good in the sense that they are there to protect you, but… When they’re in elevated levels, it’s showing that there is something else wrong, like if you’re low thyroid, you can have a total cluster of 300. Yeah, if you take alcohol or estrogen, your HDL will go up, but also if you take chlorinated hydrocarbons and other things, they’ll go up. You know, if you work in a dry cleaning factory, right? Okay, but getting back to sugar, and the erroneous link then between sugar and obesity and diabetes and heart disease. The same thing that Burr demonstrated, his diet, you know, was the energy was from plain sucrose, and his animals respired 50%!f(MISSING)aster than animals on a normal diet. 30:16 That’s been seen over and over, fructose in particular, even a small amount of fructose added to a standard diet will catalyze the oxidation of other substances, glucose and fat, but mostly it catalyzes the use of glucose, turning it to carbon dioxide. So it helps your cells use oxygen more efficiently, helps the cell respire, which is basically function better. Yeah, and that increase is just about 30 to 50%!i(MISSING)n all of the publications where they’ve looked at it. And the increased CO2 is also very beneficial, and that’s another erroneous belief or misconception that CO2 is actually bad and oxygen is good, but it’s actually the other way around, isn’t it? Yeah, and experimenters who have given a fructose supplement to diabetics see that they respond just as well or better than people without diabetes to the ability to oxidize fructose and produce energy. 31:22 And one group happened to look at the fructose that’s normally present in everyone’s bloodstream and compared it to diabetics and saw that diabetics are deficient in fructose. There’s almost no fructose circulating in their bloodstream, and so naturally it would be therapeutic to restore a normal level. But since they aren’t able to metabolize glucose, that’s apparently why they metabolize fructose to carbon dioxide even a little faster than healthy people do. So that’s orange juice and honey for diabetics. Yeah. And we do have a caller on the line. Okay, let’s take the first caller. You’re on the air? Hello? Hi, you’re on the air. Hi, I was just curious. I take lavasa. Are you saying that that stuff ain’t no good? What was the substance? 32:30 Lavasa? It’s fish oil? Oh, well, it’s better than seed oils because it’s so unstable that it pretty much breaks down before it gets integrated into your tissues as much as the seed oils would. Okay, so you figure I should just stop taking this stuff? Yeah, I don’t know any benefit except temporarily it lowers inflammation, but that’s by basically poisoning the immune system. That anti-inflammatory effect is similar to the anti-inflammatory effect of stress or radiation. Oops, we lost him. We lost Dr. Pete. Dr. Pete, you’re not there? Hello, Dr. Pete? Dr. Pete, oh, I’m sorry. There we go. 33:31 Hello? Yes, you’re there and your caller’s there too, sorry. For some reason you cut out. So you’re explaining that the negative effects of the fish oil, rather the only positive effect was the slight anti-inflammatory effect of transient. Through suppression of the immune system, which is similar to they used to use radiation x-rays to treat rheumatoid arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis because it suppressed the immune system. But it’s very pricey. But it’s pricey. It’s because expressing your immune system you risk increased cancer, increased heart disease, all sorts of problems later on in life if you use it long term. Well, I’ve already had, I still have heart disease. I have four-way bypass surgery, three heart attacks, and both my carotid arteries claimed and seven angioplasty. So I’m pretty much at the end of my rope. And they gave me this stuff to lower my cholesterol. The count was 203. 34:33 That’s not high. Wow. So 203, their reference range is 200. So even by medical standards, 203 is not. Is that what it was after you taken the fish oil or before? That, and I just started taking this stuff a couple years ago, but I’ve been wondering about it because it just makes me sick. Right. Okay. How old are you, by the way? I’m 60 years old. Okay. Well, I know that Dr. Pete’s a very strong advocate through plenty of papers that have also agreed that a higher than 200 cholesterol is actually better and decreases the incidence or prognosis of dementia, Alzheimer’s and other degenerative changes. As well as heart disease. So you should actually have or be happy that a cholesterol that over 200, between 200 and 250 would be good. Well, that’s good. Now it’s already there. I don’t have to work on it. Yeah, but the fish oil that they have to fish or not not a good idea. 35:36 And what the fish oil does when someone has a cholesterol test that just measures what’s in the blood, it doesn’t look at if it changes anything in the tissue level. So basically what happens when you take a fish oil, a supplement and it lowers your blood cholesterol is that it actually gets deposited in other tissues. Like you mentioned earlier, doctorate in your liver. And so that’s actually not good for your liver because then you could end up with a fatty liver disease. Oh, okay. Well, I’m going to stop taking it right now then. Yeah, to make sure that your dietary intake of fats is basically butter, coconut oil. And if you’re not a vegetarian saturated animal fats, that’s probably the only good fats. Yeah, we use that country crock mostly. Is that bad? Yeah. That’s vegetable oil. You don’t want to use that anyway. Okay, well, thank you for your call. If you want to know more about what we’re talking about here, you can always give us a call Monday through Friday. 36:37 We’ll give out the number at the end of the show and also a reference for Dr. Raymond Pete’s contact details and the work that he’s published. Okay, we have two more callers on the line. So let’s take the next caller. One was a quick, you say it for me. What about glycerin? Okay, Dr. Pete, what about glycerin? Oh, yeah, I’m sort of a, I’m a bit, a bit violent about it because it, some research shows that it is protective and can work somewhat like fructose. But my own experience with it is that it can cause a lot of digestive irritation. Okay. Yeah, that’s a good question I have just before we take the next caller. Is one of the protective effects of fructose is that it is non-fermentable as fructose is non-fermentable? Oh, well, when you eat any free sugar, sucrose or fructose or glucose, it is so quickly absorbed in the upper part of the intestine. 37:53 The genuinen gets the biggest part of it and that means that you’re not feeding sugar to bacteria because the intestine should be pretty sterile in the upper part. Right. Okay. Well, because we were just talking to a winemaker who said that if you want to make mead from honey, you have to heat the honey in order to break down the fructose. And then you can ferment the product. Otherwise, honey was not fermentable and that’s why it can last thousands of years without going bad. I think you have to add water to it too. Delude it right, to dilute the sugar content. Okay, sorry. Get in there before the next caller. Let’s take the next caller. You on here? Yes, is this me? Yes, you’re on here. I’m very interested in Dr. Peep’s attitude towards sugar. I have Lyme disease and when I have any actual sugar from like sugarcane, my affected joint hurts immediately. 38:56 I can have honey or maple syrup and it doesn’t affect it. And I’m also very interested in the relationship between sugar and cancer. I’ve been reading this anti-cancer diet book by a French physician who says that sugar is a great promoter of cancer. Dr. Peep. Yeah, that’s a whole topic in itself. If you look at the blood sugar in an animal or person carrying a tumor, their blood sugar generally is at least normal. And even if they don’t eat any sugar, they’ll still keep their blood sugar at about the same level. And there have been many attempts to starve the cancer by lowering the blood sugar. But the cancer, the tumor is sending out signals to provide sugar and protein amino acids and fatty acids that it needs to grow. 40:12 And so if you cut off the sugar supply, all it does is send out more stress signals to increase the basically cortisol production to break down your tissues. And it causes tissue wasting, the catexia that is the worst feature of cancer usually, is produced by the stress hormones which are converting your protein in tissues and fat tissues into food for the cancer to make up for the absence of sugar. One experimenter using to treat tumors of, for example, the leg would, since the circulation could be isolated, they put in a high concentration of glucose into the artery feeding this tumor in the extremity. 41:19 And they could get an extremely high concentration of sugar to it and it killed the tumor without hurting the healthy tissue because the tumor has such an unlimited appetite for anything that it will eat itself to death. In vitro, if you feed unsaturated fats to cancer cells, they’ll eat themselves to death. But in the body, if the unsaturated fats are under control, other tissues will consume them and be injured and you can’t do anything but stimulate the cancer with the unsaturated fats. And with high concentration of sugar, the experimenter showed that sugar would be consumed to the point that it would kill the cancer. 42:22 But I’m interested in the fact that sugar makes my affected ankle with Lyme horrible, hurt terribly. But honey and maple syrup don’t. I find that very curious. The sucrose is the main ingredient in maple syrup and the balance of fructose and glucose in honey is approximately the same. So it must be the other ingredients that are having the effect. Excuse me, there are some minerals in maple syrup. I don’t know what else is in honey, but it definitely has more than just fructose and sucrose. Yeah, that was one of the things that Yudkin used for his argument that fructose was poison. He said that it wasn’t the absence of minerals and vitamins in the white sugar that made it poison. 43:34 And he gave arguments showing that he wasn’t really any more logical than George Burr had been. Yudkin believed that he knew what all of the nutritional requirements were. And he said that the difference in the known nutrients between molasses and white sugar were so trivial that it couldn’t be that white sugar and white bread were causing nutritional deficiencies that they were poison. Well, my parents ate astounding amounts of white sugar, astounding. And they both lived into their nineties, in reasonably good shape. So I find that very interesting. Anyway, thank you. Goodbye. Thank you for your call. Thank you for your call. OK, well, it’s 7.45 here. Until the end of the show at 8 o’clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions you may have. 44:40 Our guest speaker this evening is Dr. Raymond Peat. The show is mainly about sugar. We’ll be diverging into cholesterol. And if people want to call and ask Dr. Peat questions about any other related subjects, they’re very welcome. It’s 923 if you’re in the area, 3911 or 1-800-KMUD-RAD. I think we’ve got two more callers and the lights going now. Hello? Next caller. Hi, you’re on the air. Hi, yeah. OK, what I’m hearing here is there is a difference between fructose and white processed pure white sugar. Obviously, I mean, all the medical people are not against fructose because I’m always hearing even in mainstream magazines about and eat more fruits and vegetables. So fruit is good for you. There’s no question about that. And the sugar in fruit is good for you. Well, there are lots of doctors now saying that even fructose is a poison and you shouldn’t have it, and that’s what… 45:44 I’ve never heard of that. Well, what I do know is that there’s a difference. I feel differently. It tastes different and I feel different when I eat something made with just pure white sugar than with honey or maple syrup or, you know, fruit juice that doesn’t have any added sugar. It tastes better. It feels better. And I think that an overload of white sugar that pierces your growth without any fructose in it, I think, is the culprit here because I know that there are some metabolisms where insulin will take sugar and especially, you know, plain juice fructose will lay that down and store it as fat. And, you know, that’s part of why people get fat when they eat a lot of white sugar and white flour. And also, when a person has diabetes and the insulin isn’t producing, it can’t take care of the sugar. 46:52 So, I mean, too much white sugar seems to stress out the pancreas to where it gets exhausted and can’t produce enough insulin to take care of a normal amount of sugar. Well, if you’re actually looking at glycemic indexes, the glycemic indexes of some potatoes and rice are almost double that of white sugar. Fructose, like you said, has a lower glycemic index than sucrose, but sucrose is not the guy, the pure white sugar is not the guy that causes obesity and heart disease. Sure, if you eat enough of anything, you’re going to get an increased weight gain. Well, so you’re saying that white rice and white potatoes and white flour have a higher glycemic index than white sugar? Yes, some potatoes are almost double, and some white rice are almost double that of white sugar. What kind of potato? It just depends what the sugar content is. Okay, well, I do eat some potatoes, but I pretty much stay away from white rice. It seems pretty empty. 47:53 I like brown rice and whole grains and whole grain breads. I know that the white, the white, the simple carbohydrates, white flours and white bread, they’re no good for you. Well, it’s also too, when you eat, when people eat white sugar, I mean, who would just, you can just eat a piece of fruit, right? That’s fair enough. That’s easy to do. But who just sits there and eats white sugar? Well, no, but you can put a whole lot of sugar in your coffee. You can put a whole lot of sugar in your lemonade. Sugar becomes addicting. Sometimes the desire for it increases, and you want more and more and more. I think why the fattening effects of sugar has happened is because it’s in cakes and cookies and all these fattening foods that actually have quite a high glycemic index besides just the sugar. So you’re saying if you ate sugar that was not mixed with white flour, it would be, well, it wouldn’t be as highly caloric, but you’re saying it wouldn’t be as fattening because of the glycemic index either? Yeah, it increases your ability to burn fat by 30%!t(MISSING)o 50%! (MISSING)So you can eat much more without getting fat. 48:59 Of the sucrose, as long as you stay away from the white flour and the white rice. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good because all the… And candy, and that’s worse for you than, let’s say, if you had a pie, a fruit pie that you added a bunch of sugar to, but the crust was a whole wheat crust, that would be okay. Well, all the grains and starches and beans and all of those starchy carbohydrates, they all have a higher glycemic index than fruits, honey, and white sugar. So mostly you don’t even put white sugar, unless you add it to your coffee or your lemonade or whatever, you don’t… Or your ice cream. And what about ice cream? That’s mostly fat. Is that just as bad? Well, no, because there’s no starch there. So the glycemic… If we’re talking about glycemic index and raising your sugar and causing obesity, it’s more the higher glycemic index. Well, I do weigh pretty fast on ice cream, but it’s probably the calories and all that. Right, it’s the fat and the egg yolks and yeah. It’s the fat in the cream. But yeah, if you decided you were going to eat sugar but not mixed with any kind of carbohydrates… 50:05 I drink orange juice and I eat fresh fruits and I make lemonade and… Well, that’s… I believe in fruit toast and I think that’s good, although you can overdo anything. I mean, when I drink fruit juice, I usually drink it without any added fruit juice, but I dilute it with half water so that I’m not getting too much even of the fruit toast. But there’s like 600 calories sometimes in a quart of good juice that has no added sugar, except for the fruit toast. And one last thing, I know we’ve got one more call, so we need to wrap this up, but the other thing is that when you have a fruit sugar or any sugar, you should have it balanced with a fat and a protein so you slow release the sugar so your liver can store it. So you can use it for longer rather than a huge spike of sugar that then your body pumps out insulin and then it gets stored as fat. Okay, so if you have chocolate, that’s a good way to take it. Well, chocolate doesn’t have the protein. Maybe chocolate with a glass of milk. Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you for your call. Well, just so we can get the next caller in who’s been waiting patiently, you’re on the air. Hello. Hi, you’re on the air. 51:06 I’m from Eureka. My name is Mike. Thank you for taking the call. And thank you to the people there I’m talking to. I work with Dr. P. and Andrew and the ladies. Sarah? The question is about LP little a, lipoprotein little a and collagen. They work on each other. Is there a loss of collagen when the LP little a is high? And if that’s true, how do you lower the LP little a if you have to? And how do you raise the collagen? And I’ll take my answer off the air. Thank you. Now, Dr. P, did you hear that caller’s question? No, I cut out. The gentleman wants to know the relationship between lipoprotein a and collagen. I think that was the main question. Lipoprotein a? Yeah. I think that’s what he said. LP, LPA. 52:07 I think he was getting at lipoprotein a rather than. He just said LP little a. Little a. So I’m presuming that’s lipoprotein a. I don’t know. How do you? All right. There is another caller here. Maybe he can call back and. Yeah. Okay. Let’s take the next caller then. Yes. You’re on the air. Okay. I just wondered if you could verify one thing that I’ve heard and whether or not it’s a myth. I’ve heard that high fructose corn syrup blocks a chemical signal that goes to the brain when you’ve had enough food to eat or enough to drink and it blocks that signal causing people to want to eat more and drink more. Yep. That’s leptin that they’re talking about. What is it? I knew it was. It began with a peep. I couldn’t. Leptin. Leptin. It was an L. Oh L. L-E-P-T-I-N. Okay. I can get off and let somebody else on. I’d just like to hear whether or not this is true. Okay. 53:08 I think that came from one of those doctors that was anti fructose lusted. Yeah. The pharmaceutical industry was hoping to promote leptin as a natural anti obesity chemical when they discovered it limited appetite. But as it has developed over the last 12 or so years, it turns out that it is produced when you overeat, especially on fat. And it’s produced by fat cells, especially in obese people. A lot of it is produced. And when you have a lot of it and when the brain responds to it, it does shut off your appetite. But it also happens to activate inflammatory processes. And in, for example, in breast cancer, it’s found to be the signal that turns on the cancer metabolism called aerobic glycolysis, 54:16 where the cancer, even in the presence of oxygen, needs sugar or will burn sugar at a high inefficient rate. So leptin turns out to be one of the means by which obesity causes its damage rather than being some mysteriously wonderful protective molecule. It’s part of our regulatory system, but in fat people it gets out of whack and causes harmful effects rather than regulatory effects. Okay. So it’s the bad guy. Leptin’s the bad guy. And it happens that fructose suppresses it relative to other foods. Right. Okay. So we’re just as an aside, a quicker side. I know most people that are listening to the show are probably way more conscious than to drink artificially sweetened juices or artificially sweetened sodas. 55:21 But with the tend and the fad towards artificial sweeteners as a replacement for good old sugar, there’s quite a few nasty sugar replacements out there. And very briefly. They’re all bad. They’re all bad. So things like saccharine were shown to cause allergic reactions and sucralose is a relatively new one. And I won’t go through the chemical process that’s used to produce it. But let’s just say that there’s nothing else like it in nature and it’s not good for you. And then acesulfame K is known to be a carcinogen containing methylene chloride. So plenty of the alternative sweeteners that are supposed to be good for you because sugar is not actually very bad for you folks. So don’t even think about it. And our engineer has a question. I’m putting one in for somebody. Somebody with hypothyroidism and low cholesterol. What could the link be there? I’m probably eating too much starch. That’s the commonest cause of that pattern. 56:23 Fructose in particular acts very much like T3. But both glucose and fructose increase the conversion of the inactive thyroxin to the active T3. And they do several things to increase the thyroid activity, lowering the stress hormones, as well as increasing the active thyroid hormone. And the energy provided by both the glucose and the T3 in the liver will give it the energy to produce the cholesterol that’s needed if you’re eating enough sugar and not producing toxins in your intestine by eating hard to digest fibrous starchy foods. So they can replace their starchy carbohydrates, their breads, their grains, their beans, their rice with fruits and honey in combination with the protein. 57:24 So that’s not just sugar on its own. And that would help their liver to increase thyroid hormone as well as to increase their cholesterol. Yeah, and all of the sugary fruits come with a very high concentration of potassium and other minerals that help to metabolize the sugar in a safe way so you don’t turn it to fat. Dr. Pete, I wonder would you just mention the name again so people perhaps if they’re sitting there with a pen and paper they can write it down and get on the internet and do some more reading. Udkin, you mentioned that gentleman. Oh, Udkin spelled Y-U-D-K-I-N. Okay, great. And then we also mentioned… And what was Udkin for? He was the one that popularized the glucose causes or sucrose causes heart disease. Right. Okay, so that’s a myth, his information. And then the medical doctor and PhD researcher, Ufi Ravenskov, R-A-V-N-S-K-O-V, done many, many good works there. 58:27 Looks like the cholesterol myths, one of the larger things that he’s done that we are talking about this evening. Anyway, so unfortunately, I’d love this to go on for longer. I always do when you’re on the show, Dr. Pete. Thanks so much for joining us again. And thank you, Collas, for calling in. Very good questions. Okay, so until the third Friday of next month. If people want information on Dr. Raymond Pete, www.R-A-Y-P-E-A-T dot com. A big list of fully referenced scientific articles, disputing things that most of us have been brainwashed to believe are not good for us. Go ahead and read it. I mean, it’s all there. You just got to take some time out and read. Okay, so for those people who have called this evening, thank you so much for your calls. It’s always good to have people that are interested and want to know more. And for those who want to get in contact with us Monday through Friday, we can be reached one 888 WBM Herb. And until the third Friday of next month, is there anything else? No, that’s on October 21st. 59:29 Okay, but thank you so much. Have a great weekend and see you next month. Thank you for listening. Bye-bye. 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